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Quote: AZDuffman

That is a tough one. On one hand, she starts at 8 she starts at 8. OTOH, I have lived in call center hell and it is both formally and informally understood that you have to be 100% ready to go at your start time. This in effect meant you had to be there 5-10 minutes before to be sure your computer was fired up and everything logged in, which took a few minutes.

In a union situation you would have to look at the contract. In a union-free situation you would have to look at the policy. Though the supervisor should have discussed it with the woman. Sounds like there was a touch of queen bee syndrome going on.

in a union situation Someone may have pointed out to the employer that flipping the on switch on the computer is work. Not that it is significant in the production sense, but if somehow the wiring was bad in the office for instance, when the switch was touched the employee might be injure or killed and that employer would really really want the injury covered by workmens compensation if an accident were to occur while doing "work for the company". So the union was looking out for the company.

Quote: rxwine

Just glad I don't associate with anyone who compares employees to hamburger.

How about "dead peasants"? The insurance term for life insurance taken out on employees. It used to be key exectutives, now its everything... walmart insures the life of all its employees..and makes a profit on them. The term is supposed to have originated with an executive somewhere who wanted to see if he could make a profit on his worker's lives.

Quote: AZDuffman

Why? Both are an input and a cost.

Sorry, if you think about as much about yourself as Chinese labor.

Quote: rxwine

Sorry, if you think about as much about yourself as Chinese labor.

I look at it as an economist does. I never took sociology, waste of time.

Quote: AZDuffman

I look at it as an economist does. I never took sociology, waste of time.

Yeah, so which economists suggest workers are just cogs in the machine. That is the way a sweat shop works. Simple cogs. Work 'em until they break, then replace.

Quote: petroglyph

in a union situation Someone may have pointed out to the employer that flipping the on switch on the computer is work. Not that it is significant in the production sense, but if somehow the wiring was bad in the office for instance, when the switch was touched the employee might be injure or killed and that employer would really really want the injury covered by workmens compensation if an accident were to occur while doing "work for the company". So the union was looking out for the company.

I get the satire. But really, it goes to the contract. The contract could say that "all workers must be in place to plug in no less than 3 minutes before a shift starts. This shall constitute reporting to work and this 3 minutes will be not paid."

Now, if that were in the contract, the girl would end up written up and one day fired for plugging in seconds before work started. A union would probably fight this, but might have to cave to it when they realize there are good reasons like can't have people running to work stations at the last second for safety sake. I took collective bargaining in college, the prof hammered it into our heads that the contract is the law. End of story. And in this case if it was in the contract and the supervisor wanted to let her off she really could not because the next person who did it has an instant grievance.

This is a big reason companies do not want unions. Not so much the pay rate, which is not all that much higher. Rather work rules slow everything down.

Quote: rxwine

Yeah, so which economists suggest workers are just cogs in the machine. That is the way a sweat shop works. Simple cogs. Work 'em until they break, then replace.

Actually smart companies maintain their machinery to get years and decades of service out of them.

Sorry to break it to you that labor is just an input like any other.

Quote: AZDuffman

Sorry to break it to you that labor is just an input like any other.

Maybe you should manage Face's post office. Sounds like you're a good fit.

Quote: rxwine

Maybe you should manage Face's post office. Sounds like you're a good fit.

Sorry if it is too grown up a concept for you. Inputs are inputs. Goal is to reduce the cost of all of them as much as possible. Simple Econ.

Go kick a puppy.