Climate Change -- conspiracy theory or is it time we all drive a Prius?

January 14th, 2020 at 6:19:42 AM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 135
Posts: 18136
Quote: rxwine
No, it doesn't mean nothing. Not to people affected.

And if you're doing something to help encourage such a thing, then just saying, la de da, it means nothing is acting clueless.

If you want, we can also go back 200 years and enjoy tornados and hurricanes without warnings. No reason to do anything, according to you. We can enjoy smallpox all over again. Why do anything?


It is about doing something that matters and works. Science can study short term weather and figure what causes tornadoes. It can isolate and kill the smallpox germ. But it cannot predict millions of years trends in climate and for sure cannot change them.

Did you crush your car to make a difference yet? Your girl Warren wants to ban ice cars within 10 years or so. Are you practicing what you believe? Or are you going to keep listening to men who live in mansions on their way to their private jets telling you to live in pre Industrial Age squalor?
The President is a fink.
January 14th, 2020 at 7:09:10 AM permalink
odiousgambit
Member since: Oct 28, 2012
Threads: 154
Posts: 5055
Quote: rxwine
Quote: odiousgambit
... This is not about saving the planet, it's about accepting the virtuous lifestyle laid out by the kooks who have dreamed this up. Solar energy, vegan diet, socialist economy, identity politics, you name it, and it all is to be justified by science that is not to be questioned, which is to say science that is bad science by definition.


You're really combining a lot of stuff.  I don't think socialism is any more the realm of scientists than anything else.  Scientist are studying food, but every popular vegan idea is not by a scientist.  You also have to contend with companies who are only interested in studies that confirm their product is great. 
Climate Change science is said to be producing* evidence that more supports the proposition that man-caused carbon input into the atmosphere is having a considerable effect , and I accept that. It's the Climate Alarmists that bother me, and plenty of these are not scientists. Of the scientists there are some obvious kooks too. 

If you have not been aware of the recent trend of these alarmists conflating these agendas together, under the banner of "green new deal" for example, then start taking a look. The anti-meat thing really is the final straw for me.

Quote: link on Green New Deal
[besides reducing greenhouse gases] the plan also emphasizes environmental and social justice. It acknowledges how historically oppressed groups—indigenous peoples, people of color, the poor, and migrants—are more likely to be affected by climate change and asks that they be included and consulted. Its progressive spirit is reflected in the calls for the protection of workers’ rights, community ownership, universal healthcare, and a job guarantee.
 

Quote: link on more recent agenda about meat
Curbing the world’s huge and increasing appetite for meat is essential to avoid devastating climate change, according to a new report. ...
“Preventing catastrophic warming is dependent on tackling meat and dairy consumption, but the world is doing very little,” said Rob Bailey, the report’s lead author. “A lot is being done on deforestation and transport, but there is a huge gap on the livestock sector...”



https://www.investopedia.com/the-green-new-deal-explained-4588463
https://ourworld.unu.edu/en/eating-less-meat-essential-to-curb-climate-change-says-report




*I have to just follow the media like most anybody else; a guy can try to get that as balanced as possible is all
I'm Still Standing, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah [it's an old guy chant for me]
January 16th, 2020 at 7:35:46 AM permalink
kenarman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 14
Posts: 4470
I didn't want to hi-jack the religious thread so below is a cut and paste of a post on how the Catholic Church gets/keeps their members from that thread. You probably don't need me to point out why many of us think that Climate Change is a religion not science.

"1. Start in early childhood brain development.
2. Limit exposure to contrary views.
3. Flatly repudiate those views, when exposure inadvertently happens.
4. ???
5. Profit "
"but if you make yourselves sheep, the wolves will eat you." Benjamin Franklin
January 16th, 2020 at 9:38:49 AM permalink
rxwine
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 188
Posts: 18631
Quote: kenarman
I didn't want to hi-jack the religious thread so below is a cut and paste of a post on how the Catholic Church gets/keeps their members from that thread. You probably don't need me to point out why many of us think that Climate Change is a religion not science.

"1. Start in early childhood brain development.
2. Limit exposure to contrary views.
3. Flatly repudiate those views, when exposure inadvertently happens.
4. ???
5. Profit "


Science was accused of being a religion long before the general public even heard of a whisper of climate change/GW.

I saw atheism attacked as a religion back when I was on the usenet news groups. Seen it here as well.
You believe in an invisible god, and dismiss people who say they are trans? Really?
January 16th, 2020 at 10:05:41 AM permalink
terapined
Member since: Aug 6, 2014
Threads: 73
Posts: 11786
Quote: rxwine

I saw atheism attacked as a religion back when I was on the usenet news groups. Seen it here as well.

To me atheism is to not believe any make believe BS regarding a make believe god. (the g is always lower case for atheists)
Sometimes we live no particular way but our own - Grateful Dead "Eyes of the World"
January 16th, 2020 at 10:17:44 AM permalink
Face
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 61
Posts: 3941
Quote: kenarman
I didn't want to hi-jack the religious thread so below is a cut and paste of a post on how the Catholic Church gets/keeps their members from that thread. You probably don't need me to point out why many of us think that Climate Change is a religion not science.

"1. Start in early childhood brain development.
2. Limit exposure to contrary views.
3. Flatly repudiate those views, when exposure inadvertently happens.
4. ???
5. Profit "


The problem is not with the science but with people. It stands to reason that climate change is a young persons game. It's a new thing, and new is the territory of the young. The young are also plagued with brashness, a sense of superiority, also a trait of the young. I know I see it all the time, and I find it just as unattractive as you do. But it's not a trait of the issue. It's rather a human thing, this thing that happens when one experiences a revelation. You feel so damn smart, so tuned in, that derision of the idea is seen as a personal offense. And so you build your ivory tower to elevate yourself above the rubes and cast your aspersions from on high. Do you not see this very trait in myself?

This is what I see happening and what I feel OG and you rail against. For it is 100% true that eating meat has a large impact and is a source of a good deal of our problematic waste. However, I too feel the militant vegans are a bunch of uptight c#$%s being ridiculous and emotionally unhinged. But just as I don't abandon conservation just because it was Hitler who promoted it, so to do I not ignore sense just because a bunch of clowns decided to make it their identity.

The meat is a perfect example. There's zero chance I'm going to stop eating meat. I go so far to say there is not a chance I will skip even one meat meal, because I won't. But what I have done is adjust. I am THE meat and potatoes guy. At the family cook out, I'm the guy with a plate and a steak and not one thing else, the vegans worst nightmare. But I changed. Instead of a whole steak, I now make a quasi stir fry. Instead of a whole breast, I'll make chicken salad. Now that steak went from one meal to 2. The chicken from one meal to 4. And just like that, with no effort or illness suffered and in fact a revelation of better health and superior flavor, I've cut my entire meat consumption by over 50%. I didn't even try! Yet we're on our way all the same.

This is the s#$% you should be picking up and I continue to be baffled at the resistance. It's scientific fact tobacco is bad for you. It doesn't mean I quit smoking. It DOES mean that I make effort to smoke away from people, to change my clothes before soothing a baby, to wash my hands before dealing with consumables. It means that I'll skip one when I can, smoke halves when I can't. Y'alls stance seems more like wanting to wallow in the ashtray just to troll the libs or whatever the hell. Like I pointed out with AZD, a bunch of this s#$% is in YOUR best interest, and directly, and you're probably already doing it. Green peppers cheaper than steak, romaine cheaper than chicken. It's money in your pocket. Yet, resistance.

Quit it. It's not about being Cody Lundin traipsing around the forest barefoot. It's about being better than you were yesterday. It's about simple s#$%. Don't support plastic bottle manufacturers, buy a GD Brita filter and ONE bottle. Good for the enviro, saves you money and effort. Buy local when you can. Reduces transportation, puts money into your own economy. Plant a tree. Sequesters carbon, gives shade, home for life, raises your property value. Terp is free to continue collecting albums; he is free to live and enjoy his life. But me, I just want the content, not a collectable. Give me the digital download and spare the plastic processing.

The little s#$%. It's not about wholesale change to fit the entire list. Find something in that list within your power and do it. If every single person in the US and Canada skipped just ONE bottle of water per YEAR, it would spare us EIGHT MILLION, THREE HUNDRED AND TWENTY FIVE THOUSAND POUNDS of plastic waste. One bottle of water per year. Eight million f#$%ing pounds.

The littlest thing makes the biggest difference. All it takes is to try.
Be bold and risk defeat, or be cautious and encourage it.
January 16th, 2020 at 2:08:56 PM permalink
Fleastiff
Member since: Oct 27, 2012
Threads: 62
Posts: 7831
On the National Skip A Bottle of Water Day, I'll have two!
January 16th, 2020 at 6:55:43 PM permalink
odiousgambit
Member since: Oct 28, 2012
Threads: 154
Posts: 5055
Quote: Face
But just as I don't abandon conservation just because it was Hitler who promoted it, so to do I not ignore sense just because a bunch of clowns decided to make it their identity.
Yes, in case you were wondering if I was impervious to 'sense', I do think there is no reason for an outdoorsman to carry any water for polluters. Fossil fuel outfits, always dirty, can fight there own battles and in fact usually prevail due to economic advantage. They don't need me to fight for them. 

And just for the record I've cut way down on meat going back maybe 3 decades. Generally, there's meat in only one meal a day for me. But you see me opposing the Climate Alarmists because I can see they are in fact power hungry authoritarians at heart, very much prone to coercion. 
 
I have for some time in fact been deeply suspicious of claims that livestock produce too much greenhouse gas - it does seem to fly in the face of common sense. But I discovered the problem is not CO2 but CH4 - methane - and methane is much worse for the greenhouse effect. If it were just CO2, the problem always comes down to net, net. CO2 is involved in a cycle, and if net, net more carbon is buried, taken out of the cycle, by some activity than is introduced into the cycle, then the activity is actually 'carbon negative'. The Amazon swamps produce monumental amounts of methane, but the Amazon is well noted as one of the best 'carbon sinks' the world has - the lungs of the world, as it was put recently in imperfect but vivid metaphor. Therefore, however, the Amazon gets a pass for the methane it produces while our cows seemingly only get extreme scrutiny in the face of the ridiculous picture the whole concept projects. Quite suspiciously it seems hard to find real scientific studies cited in the place I look for that - the media. They can find some dude in some academy somewhere to spout an opinion, as in the link. I see we are to trust that there are studies and these do more than just measure the gross amount of methane produced by cows - which would be deeply flawed. 

Though never cited as anything but a minor contributor to the offending gases, such is accepted as evidence enough to keep popping up as one of the things the progressives want to pull off: turning us all into vegans! I am hearing this more and more now from these people. 

btw the Wizard gives an opinion on eating meat in his latest ask-me-anything on youtube


https://apnews.com/9791f1f85808409e93a1abc8b98531d5
I'm Still Standing, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah [it's an old guy chant for me]
January 21st, 2020 at 6:35:33 AM permalink
odiousgambit
Member since: Oct 28, 2012
Threads: 154
Posts: 5055
Polar bears raining from the sky! didn't know that could happen.

Start at the point set up in the link, then watch the whole thing

https://youtu.be/z6bcCTFnGZ0?t=218

What can we learn from this? My opinion:

*scientists are good at collecting data but bad at predictions

*alarmists, many called experts, however, are not to be denied

*the ability to manipulate the public with emotionally charged BS is not to be underestimated

*one should indeed think about this polar bear thing when watching the news and thinking, for instance, "wow, it's my civic duty to quit eating meat! They wouldn't be saying that stuff if it wasn't true!"
I'm Still Standing, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah [it's an old guy chant for me]
January 21st, 2020 at 8:36:37 AM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 135
Posts: 18136
Quote: odiousgambit
Polar bears raining from the sky! didn't know that could happen.

Start at the point set up in the link, then watch the whole thing

https://youtu.be/z6bcCTFnGZ0?t=218

What can we learn from this? My opinion:

*scientists are good at collecting data but bad at predictions

*alarmists, many called experts, however, are not to be denied

*the ability to manipulate the public with emotionally charged BS is not to be underestimated

*one should indeed think about this polar bear thing when watching the news and thinking, for instance, "wow, it's my civic duty to quit eating meat! They wouldn't be saying that stuff if it wasn't true!"


Another moral is so many people have such secure lives they will find anything to worry about.
The President is a fink.