Common sense versus science

Quote: Nareed

I'd be convinced by now, if I hadn't been before, that all motorcycle enthusiasts harbor some sort of death-wish ;)

It's not as bad as it sounds. It's much like driving different cars. Every one of them has a different feel to it; some steering ratios are different, brakes require different amounts of pressure to work, etc. But, you can still drive every one of them. It's natural, it's instinct.

You don't ever think of the "opposite-ness", ever. You just ride. To be honest, the only way I noticed it was that I used to smoke weed and ride a lot, and while weirding out I just happened to think deeply about the act of riding and observed the backwards-ness of it all lol.

Riding is rather easy, in and of itself. Especially at speed, it is nigh impossible to wreck. When I'd race, approaching a corner ready to attack it found me hanging right off the side of the bike. I was so far off that it was my hamstring and back of my knee that was on the seat itself; the rest of me was hanging off over nothingness ready to duck into the corner. And the bike, even with my 200lbs way off the side, rode as straight and level as ever. Ever see a bike wreck in a race? No matter how crazy, if the wheels touch the road, the bike will right itself and keep right on going without a rider. They want to stay upright.

It's the other drivers that kill riders. Other drivers and the squid* mentality. If we could halve those two things, we'd prevent 90% of biker fatalities.

*Squid - 1. contraction of "squirrely kid", a type of rider who rides way over his abilities, often wearing only shorts, t-shirts, and sandals.
2. Initials of a title - S.tupid Q.uick U.nderdressed I.mminently D.ead
3. Description of all that's left when they wreck, which is a helmet with a trail of fleshy bits.

Quote: Face

It's not as bad as it sounds.

Perhaps not. I still would never ride on one if I could help it.

Quote: Face

It's not as bad as it sounds. It's much like driving different cars. Every one of them has a different feel to it; some steering ratios are different, brakes require different amounts of pressure to work, etc. But, you can still drive every one of them. It's natural, it's instinct.

You don't ever think of the "opposite-ness", ever. You just ride. To be honest, the only way I noticed it was that I used to smoke weed and ride a lot, and while weirding out I just happened to think deeply about the act of riding and observed the backwards-ness of it all lol.

Riding is rather easy, in and of itself. Especially at speed, it is nigh impossible to wreck. When I'd race, approaching a corner ready to attack it found me hanging right off the side of the bike. I was so far off that it was my hamstring and back of my knee that was on the seat itself; the rest of me was hanging off over nothingness ready to duck into the corner. And the bike, even with my 200lbs way off the side, rode as straight and level as ever. Ever see a bike wreck in a race? No matter how crazy, if the wheels touch the road, the bike will right itself and keep right on going without a rider. They want to stay upright.

It's the other drivers that kill riders. Other drivers and the squid* mentality. If we could halve those two things, we'd prevent 90% of biker fatalities.

*Squid - 1. contraction of "squirrely kid", a type of rider who rides way over his abilities, often wearing only shorts, t-shirts, and sandals.
2. Initials of a title - S.tupid Q.uick U.nderdressed I.mminently D.ead
3. Description of all that's left when they wreck, which is a helmet with a trail of fleshy bits.

I remain unconvinced. And it is no longer April 1st.
My best friend was killed in a motorcycle accident in 1967 so I assure you I will not be field-testing this counter-intuitive turn situation, centripetal force or no.

Quote: Face

Turn right to go left lol.

I think I get it. Face doesn't mean the bike will go left but you, if uninterrupted, will go left.

Lets let Face see if I got it by giving another example. I can "walk at 68 mph on the NYS Thruway." All I need to do is go to the back of a Greyhound bus doing the legal limit and walk at 3 m.p.h. Add my 3 to the 65 of the bus and I am "walking at 68 mph."

Am I close? Am I at least in the right lane?

Quote: chickenman

I remain unconvinced. And it is no longer April 1st.

I swear.

Quote: AZDuffman

I think I get it. Face doesn't mean the bike will go left but you, if uninterrupted, will go left.

Am I close? Am I at least in the right lane?

Not close. It's more of my lack of expertise in this area of physics than either of you's lack of comprehension. Let's see if I can break it down a little more...

You're going 60 down the road on a bike. A left hand turn is coming. Once you get there, you turn the bars to the right. As you begin to turn the bars, the bike wants to follow the wheel, right? Well, while the wheel is trying to turn it and force it to the right, everything else is trying to go straight by way of inertia. If the bottom of your wheels, where they contact the road, start to go right, and everything else tries to go straight, surely you can see that it'll make you lean to the left.

In a car, everything gets pushed to the left as you turn. On a bike, there aren't 2 more wheels to keep to level. The whole bike leans to the left. All of it, including you.

Now, that spinning wheel, what with it's c+c, does NOT want to lean. It wants to be straight up and down. It must be straight up and down. And there are only two ways to get back straight up and down. Either lift the 350lbs of bike and 200lbs of rider back into standing straight up, or have the "bottom" of the tire, the part contacting the road, move towards the lean and "get back under it". The tire moving is the path of least resistance, so it moves under it. As your right hand turning force caused you to lean left, the tires moves to the left.

I hate that I can't explain this right. But it's no trickery, no play on words, no weird mind game I'm playing to trick you. You turn right to go left, and left to go right. Simple as that ><

Quote: Face

3. Description of all that's left when they wreck, which is a helmet with a trail of fleshy bits.

#3 gets my vote

as far as turning a bike goes, I think you lean as much as anything?

Quote: odiousgambit

#3 gets my vote

as far as turning a bike goes, I think you lean as much as anything?

Shortest video I could find on this (motorcyclist are long winded for some reason)

Quote: odiousgambit

#3 gets my vote

as far as turning a bike goes, I think you lean as much as anything?

RX beat me to it, but leaning is the effect, not the cause. As you can see in that vid, even severe weight imbalance doesn't affect the bike all that much. The only reason his bike moved as much as it did was because he was going like 10mph.

When I'd have to pass traffic in a 120mph stand up wheelie, every bit of my 200lbs was on one peg hanging way off the side. The bike barely tracks the way you're leaning. Even the lightest, sweeping corner couldn't be made in this fashion, and believe me, I tried ;)

But with cranking the bars back and forth, I could slalom the dotted lines or road cones at 70mph. It cuts like a knife. And cones at 70 can break fingers. As with everything in this thread... just believe me =p

I really wish you hadn't posted that vid, tho. It gave me flashbacks. The bad kind. The kind that make me yearn. I had to go looking for more...



I can't believe I used to do exactly this on public roads. But I couldn't even watch until Flugplatz before I had so many tears in my eyes I couldn't see the screen. There is nothing, NOTHING on this Earth, like riding on the ragged edge. My heart is racing and I'm shaking just watching it.

Thank god I sold that thing. There's just no way I'd still be here if I hadn't.

The gyroscope effect is real enough. Given the mass of a motorcycle's wheels and their speed, yes the bike tends to "want" to stay upright. See a motorcycle race sometime and notice how low the riders get on turns. their knees almost graze the ground, yet the bikes is stable and rigths itself at once coming out of the turn.

Quote: Face

When I'd have to pass traffic in a 120mph stand up wheelie,...

This is the funniest part of all of this, Face...you HAD TO? They couldn't be so obliging as to see you coming up on their bumper like a banshee and simply hit the ditch? You HAD TO do this.

I also thank God you sold that thing. How you did not become an organ donor....wow. I do get the adrenalin rush of it; sounds like acrobatic stunt flying to me, which I loved to the point of craving it for years afterwards. But damn, man. I got to ride with a pro on the Daytona track for 3 laps and we topped 185 mph, and it didn't feel as fast as those two videos looked.