Original Sin?

Quote: Nareed

The reality of existence cannot be explained by a god, either, unless you explain the mechanism that makes a god absolutely necessary.

The impossibility of an actual infinite regress makes God an absolute necessity.

Quote: FrGamble

Quote: Nareed

The reality of existence cannot be explained by a god, either, unless you explain the mechanism that makes a god absolutely necessary.

The impossibility of an actual infinite regress makes God an absolute necessity.

It does not. You are simply inserting one impossible explaination to an unknown. You then extend that impossible explaination and claim that it is also your personal god who was the cause, and not anyone elses god.

Your mind is completely closed to any other possibility.

Quote: FrGamble

The impossibility of an actual infinite regress makes God an absolute necessity.

That's a pretty big leap. I asked for proof that any kind of supernatural agent is necessary, and you leaped from there to a non-equivocal affirmation that one --or is it three?-- specific supernatural agent is a necessity.

I can't wait to see your proof.

Of course no proof is forthcoming, merely more baseless Platonic assumptions, if that much. So I won't actually wait.

Quote: Dalex64

You are simply inserting one impossible explaination to an unknown. You then extend that impossible explaination and claim that it is also your personal god who was the cause, and not anyone elses god.

Your mind is completely closed to any other possibility.

It has to be that way when you're
deeply brainwashed into a cult
mentality. You're in a box, there
is no way out except the cults way.
Every word of the Jesus myth has
to have really happened just the
way it's written, or their world
completely falls apart.

That's what we see with FrG. That's
why he repeats himself constantly
and never remembers when we've
already discussed the same subject
14 times. He walks the Church
tightrope, he has no wiggle room.
It's either the way he's been
brainwashed into believing, or it's
no way at all. There is no middle ground.

Quote: Dalex64

It does not. You are simply inserting one impossible explaination to an unknown. You then extend that impossible explaination and claim that it is also your personal god who was the cause, and not anyone elses god.

Your mind is completely closed to any other possibility.

It is not an unknown that for us to avoid an infinite regress of finite contingent beings then there must be an eternal non-contingent being. This being to be eternal must be spiritual. This being to create all that exists must be all powerful. These facts are just logical and I would await another possible solution to explain how there can be anything at all. This is a proof in the sense of a mathematical type of proof, not one that can be proved through physical evidence. Although things like red-shift, an expanding universe, the Big Bang theory, the thermodynamic laws of physics all point to the truth of a creator of the universe it is the logic that gets us there.

You are completely right in that this does NOT mean that it is my conception of God that created the universe. I believe what I do based on the faith I have in Revelation through the Scriptures and the Tradition of the Church, history, miracles, saints, the supernatural, and my own personal experiences.

Why is it that you are so completely closed to the reality that some being, having the characteristics we commonly attribute to "God" exist. I can't see how or why you can doubt this unless as Evenbob continues to contend one of us is brainwashed.

Quote: FrGamble

It is not an unknown that for us to avoid an infinite regress of finite contingent beings then there must be an eternal non-contingent being.

There may be a need for a non-contingent something. Given what we know of the evolution and development of the universe, chances are a "being" of any kind is not even remotely possible, much less absolutely necessary.

Quote:

This being to be eternal must be spiritual.

I wish you'd come up with one example of one instance where something non-material, non-energetic, non-measureable, has come up with something material. Just one.

Quote:

These facts are just logical

When I say "you'd make a great comedy act," I mean "It would be impolite to laugh in your face." Well, in part. there's more to it, but that would be really rude.

Quote: FrGamble

It is not an unknown that for us to avoid an infinite regress of finite contingent beings then there must be an eternal non-contingent being. This being to be eternal must be spiritual. This being to create all that exists must be all powerful. These facts are just logical and I would await another possible solution to explain how there can be anything at all. This is a proof in the sense of a mathematical type of proof, not one that can be proved through physical evidence. Although things like red-shift, an expanding universe, the Big Bang theory, the thermodynamic laws of physics all point to the truth of a creator of the universe it is the logic that gets us there.

You are completely right in that this does NOT mean that it is my conception of God that created the universe. I believe what I do based on the faith I have in Revelation through the Scriptures and the Tradition of the Church, history, miracles, saints, the supernatural, and my own personal experiences.

Why is it that you are so completely closed to the reality that some being, having the characteristics we commonly attribute to "God" exist. I can't see how or why you can doubt this unless as Evenbob continues to contend one of us is brainwashed.

Putting aside your assumption that the universe is contingent on something else, and the assumption that the something else could have only been an all powerful eternal entity,

I see no logical way to link the all powerful being you think is necessary with any of the gods that anyone has ever believed in, including your own.

Skipping to the conclusion here because of too many words, summary is "everyone claims everybody else is wrong"

The inescapable conclusion that I reach is all religions were created solely by people with no "divine inspiration" whatsoever.

Quote: Dalex64

The inescapable conclusion that I reach is all religions were created solely by people with no "divine inspiration" whatsoever.

That's the conclusion Campbell came to
after making myths and religion his life's
work. FrG doesn't realize it, but he's at
the starting point of what's real and what
isn't. He thinks he's found it all, when he's
really just pointing himself in the right
direction. Many stop there because of
laziness or lack of curiosity. It's easy to
become complacent and rest on your
laurels when you've gone just a short
way down the path.

Quote: Nareed

I wish you'd come up with one example of one instance where something non-material, non-energetic, non-measureable, has come up with something material. Just one.

The Universe.

Quote: FrGamble

The Universe.

LOL! Touche, a non answer if there
ever was one. If you can't answer
for real, punt.