In the News II

Quote: Gandler

Nobody thinks wealth can be made from nothing, but it can be redistributed.

People that say UBI will work are exactly saying wealth can be made from nothing.

Quote: AZDuffman

People that say UBI will work are exactly saying wealth can be made from nothing.

That is literally never the case. People discussing UBI spend more time focusing on how it can be funded than any other policy position. In fact I would even hazard most of the UBI discourse is how it can be funded. This happens with almost no other policy position.

Remeber there is a reason that the Wizard (who knows more about math and economics than both of us combined) says that UBI would he a net gain more the majority of Americans.

But, in any case the idea that UBI proponents don't discuss the funding is simply wrong. Also, it actually used to be a con position, because the elimination of all welfare programs to fund a single program is more effective (look at famous historic cons in the 70s and 80s who thought it was a good idea). Some call it a "universal tax credit", which if that makes you feel better about it, sure....

Quote: Gandler

That is literally never the case. People discussing UBI spend more time focusing on how it can be funded than any other policy position. In fact I would even hazard most of the UBI discourse is how it can be funded. This happens with almost no other policy position.

Remeber there is a reason that the Wizard (who knows more about math and economics than both of us combined) says that UBI would he a net gain more the majority of Americans.

But, in any case the idea that UBI proponents don't discuss the funding is simply wrong. Also, it actually used to be a con position, because the elimination of all welfare programs to fund a single program is more effective (look at famous historic cons in the 70s and 80s who thought it was a good idea). Some call it a "universal tax credit", which if that makes you feel better about it, sure....

Wiz knows about math for sure. But econ and banking are not just simply math. UBI is on of those things "educated" people insist can work with fancy explanations, but it is easy to point out that their UBI king isn't wearing any clothes. I keep calling out that he is wearing no clothes by pointing out that you cannot give everyone $1,000 without taking more than that.

If that is not enough, study cases of hyperinflation. Money pumped in causes costs to rise. So if your taxes and costs for goods go up more than the UBI you are behind. Thing is, "educated" people never get this simple fact.

Quote: AZDuffman

Wiz knows about math for sure. But econ and banking are not just simply math. UBI is on of those things "educated" people insist can work with fancy explanations, but it is easy to point out that their UBI king isn't wearing any clothes. I keep calling out that he is wearing no clothes by pointing out that you cannot give everyone $1,000 without taking more than that.

If that is not enough, study cases of hyperinflation. Money pumped in causes costs to rise. So if your taxes and costs for goods go up more than the UBI you are behind. Thing is, "educated" people never get this simple fact.

Remeber almost every billionaire that you have probably heard of supports UBI. So it is simply not a case of poor people wanting extra money, in fact the most extreme wealthy people supporting something universally must add some credit to it (unless you are going into the conspiracy land of the most wealthy are detached and it's only the somewhat wealthy that we should listen to). Either way these are all arguments from authority (even if the authority is simply having a lot of money). I only make the point to show the most successful have an almost identical view.

You can absolutely give everyone 1000 without taking more than 1000. You are assuming everyone has a static income. Even if you only take more than 1000 from people who make more than 120k a year, that is still a net gain to most Americans. Granted the gain will be less pronounced the more that you make. The ultra rich will lose out, wealthy people will lose some, people in the middle-upperclassmen will break even, and the people on the lowest end will benefit the most, this is why UBI is just, it rewards everyone equally, but it impacts those the most who actually need it.

Quote: Gandler

Remeber almost every billionaire that you have probably heard of supports UBI. So it is simply not a case of poor people wanting extra money, in fact the most extreme wealthy people supporting something universally must add some credit to it (unless you are going into the conspiracy land of the most wealthy are detached and it's only the somewhat wealthy that we should listen to). Either way these are all arguments from authority (even if the authority is simply having a lot of money). I only make the point to show the most successful have an almost identical view.

Just because billionaires support it does not give it credibility. Not to me. Billionaires supporting it does not change the math that it is impossible to make it work.

Quote:

You can absolutely give everyone 1000 without taking more than 1000.

No, you cannot. Because the money must come from the same population you are giving it to.

Quote:

You are assuming everyone has a static income. Even if you only take more than 1000 from people who make more than 120k a year, that is still a net gain to most Americans. Granted the gain will be less pronounced the more that you make. The ultra rich will lose out, wealthy people will lose some, people in the middle-upperclassmen will break even, and the people on the lowest end will benefit the most, this is why UBI is just, it rewards everyone equally, but it impacts those the most who actually need it.

So, your whole argument comes down to "lets steal more money from 'the rich' and it will work."??????

You do not think "the rich" are not going to raise prices in their businesses and for their services to make it work out??

Besides that it is impossible to make it work out mathematically, you also ignore human nature. It would make the low end lazy. More and more people will get stuck in the bottom than welfare has done already. Even people trying to escape welfare have a hard time as the start to the path is hard since you have to work hard for the same money you used to get for free. So people just decide to live a hardscrabble welfare life than be working poor until they can move up.

I saw it with EIC. People got angry that the OT they took lowered their payout, even if they made net more!

Nothing about UBI works.

Quote: AZDuffman

North Korea?

you're just kidding of course. They don't have that at all, the elites live quite well, thank you.

Maybe outside the elites it's pretty equal misery

One of the biggest scams is disability.

Once a person gets on the gravy train, they choose not to work so their payments and/or housing don't stop.

I'm referring to those taking advantage of the system not the obviously disabled ones.

It guarantees unemployment (dropping out of the work force).

It's possible financial assistance hurts a person's self-esteem more than helps.

Because it opens up usage of the term "mooch".

Like the animals that are forced to suckle the hind teat, close to the buttocks.

Quote: AZDuffman

Just because billionaires support it does not give it credibility. Not to me. Billionaires supporting it does not change the math that it is impossible to make it work.



No, you cannot. Because the money must come from the same population you are giving it to.



So, your whole argument comes down to "lets steal more money from 'the rich' and it will work."??????

You do not think "the rich" are not going to raise prices in their businesses and for their services to make it work out??

Besides that it is impossible to make it work out mathematically, you also ignore human nature. It would make the low end lazy. More and more people will get stuck in the bottom than welfare has done already. Even people trying to escape welfare have a hard time as the start to the path is hard since you have to work hard for the same money you used to get for free. So people just decide to live a hardscrabble welfare life than be working poor until they can move up.

I saw it with EIC. People got angry that the OT they took lowered their payout, even if they made net more!

Nothing about UBI works.

No, my whole argument is you are not taking 1000 dollars a month from everyone. The wealthy will likley pay over 1000 dollars a month, people in the middle class nowhere near it, and people on the bottom income basically nothing, so it will be a net gain for most people. So yes higher income people will pay more as with most tax systems, and they will get the same benefit (which will be a net loss).

I don't understand how this is complicated, some people will pay far more than 1000 a month, most people will pay less than 1000 a month, making this a net gain.

Walgreens missed on earnings and they slashed their forecast this morning.

It's off about $2B in market value pre-market (-8%).


The Monthly chart up to yesterday for WBA shows a bearish upside down cup and handle formation.

The blue horizontal line is support for a short term bull trade ($21.28++) before she rises and collapses longer term.

Pre-market price is about $29.


This formation is relatively rare.

It seems to indicate an underlying issue in it's business model or something not being addressed, etc.


Image can be expanded by clicking on it.

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https://imgur.com/NxADB6v

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