Rights From Wrongs
September 30th, 2020 at 9:45:49 AM permalink | |
FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 | Sorry, I unblocked you. “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |
October 2nd, 2020 at 10:22:37 AM permalink | |
Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25010 | My take on the first 2 chapters is, the author makes the point that no human rights come from any god, and he explains why. Of course he's correct, there is no god for them to come from. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
October 2nd, 2020 at 5:11:25 PM permalink | |
aceofspades Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 83 Posts: 2019 |
Indeed - waiting for the padre to weigh in |
October 2nd, 2020 at 5:34:09 PM permalink | |
FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 | I am excited about this little virtual book club. So far I like his honesty in admitting he is a moral relativist and the difficulties inherent in that and the whole task that he has undertaken in trying to ground rights not in natural law or positive law. I am intrigued about his idea that rights come from wrongs, I thought it was just a cool title to the book but it is a summary description of his whole theory. I have just read the introduction so far so I will keep my big challenges to later but I will share my hopes about where I hope he goes and tries to answer. I also really like the fact that he is going to try to apply his theory to different modern moral issues. I also am intrigued by his focus on experience and "nurtural" laws. Again in a moment of honesty he explains why it is so important to ask the question, "What are the sources of our rights?" On pg. 5 he says, "it is easy to argue that man made rights must take a backseat to the preferences or perceived needs of the majority in a democracy." He rightly thinks this is a big problem. I imagine we all agree that this is a problem and it might be a good starting point to our discussion. Do you agree with Derschowitz that rights have to come if not from God or natural laws or positive laws - they also can't come from man-made decisions. I know he goes on to give a good preview of rights coming from near universal rejection of evils, but it might be good to check in about what we all think about the real danger of man-made rights? “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |
October 2nd, 2020 at 5:52:04 PM permalink | |
Dalex64 Member since: Mar 8, 2014 Threads: 3 Posts: 3687 | This conversation is going to go nowhere fast if the notion of "real danger of man-made rights" is some kind of pre-condition of their validity. It's real simple. If you don't believe in god, then by definition those rights came from man. Whether or not you consider that "dangerous" is irrelevant. I don't have the book, though, and don't plan on getting it, but couldn't help myself (yet again) from throwing the flag on bad logic. "Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." Daniel Patrick Moynihan |
October 2nd, 2020 at 5:59:17 PM permalink | |
FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 |
A good summary of the problem he is attempting to address. I too have my doubts on his logic but I am excited about hearing him out. Dalex do you share the concern that man-made rights are dangerous in that man, our those in power or the majority, can unmake those rights when convenient? “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |
October 2nd, 2020 at 8:09:09 PM permalink | |
Dalex64 Member since: Mar 8, 2014 Threads: 3 Posts: 3687 |
I don't believe that man-made rights are inherently dangerous. A majority, or a powerful enough minority, can and does occasionally change those rights. I am more concerned when a powerful minority is making the rules than a majority. Do you think it is dangerous when a minority claims certain rights are god-given, and attempts to impose them on the majority? "Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." Daniel Patrick Moynihan |
October 2nd, 2020 at 9:41:35 PM permalink | |
Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25010 |
There are no other rights than man made. That's like asking if man made SUV's are dangerous. As opposed to what, space alien made SUV's? It's a trick question, like 'did you ever stop beating your wife." It's what's called a loaded question. If you answer yes or no you've screwed yourself. You're admitting there might be an outside force making up rights, when it's only men doing it. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
October 2nd, 2020 at 10:02:06 PM permalink | |
aceofspades Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 83 Posts: 2019 |
Yeah it all starts with a supposition - "There is a god" then "God told us what was right and wrong in the 10 commandments" then "All rules/laws/rights stem from that" |
October 3rd, 2020 at 5:20:35 AM permalink | |
FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 |
Very much so. What I think is needed is something objective and outside of the hands of the whims of the majority or the powerful. “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |