Minimum wage

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November 23rd, 2019 at 7:06:48 AM permalink
SOOPOO
Member since: Feb 19, 2014
Threads: 10
Posts: 1457
Wife's daughter is 20. Just started dating a nice young man (21). He graduated high school and has been working full time at Panera since. Lives with a roommate so expenses are low. And with fast food minimum wage he probably is making $12-13 an hour.
So he is doing 'ok' now. During a chat he mentioned his dream job would be a history teacher. But he is not in college now (It would be free at a SUNY school).
I truly believe that the artificially forced high minimum wage is giving these young people a false sense of security, and stifling the urge to improve yourself. Of course making more money now is good for you now, but I am not so sure if it is good for you long term.
November 23rd, 2019 at 7:47:44 AM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 124
Posts: 11567
Quote: SOOPOO
Wife's daughter is 20. Just started dating a nice young man (21). He graduated high school and has been working full time at Panera since. Lives with a roommate so expenses are low. And with fast food minimum wage he probably is making $12-13 an hour.
So he is doing 'ok' now. During a chat he mentioned his dream job would be a history teacher. But he is not in college now (It would be free at a SUNY school).
I truly believe that the artificially forced high minimum wage is giving these young people a false sense of security, and stifling the urge to improve yourself. Of course making more money now is good for you now, but I am not so sure if it is good for you long term.


First thing is I will put aside that history teacher is not a very good dream job, he needs to be realistic.

It might be part the high MW, but part is just normal for that stage of life. If he is full time, $26,000 a year in Buffalo is barely making it, but if you live with roommates like half-a-monk you can do it. So here is what that stage of life is as I remember it.

You start working bottom-end in HS if you are not a spoiled rich kid or everyday lazy. You either bounce a few jobs or find an entry level job that is not all that bad. You stay around. So taking the example of Panera. He probably has himself "set" to an extent. Been there a few years so better shifts. More seniority means less cleaning of the latrines or none at all. All kinds of little things and security.

Life at this stage passes fast. I saw it from the other end. Other friends his age will be going to college, joining the military, or get a better job that sends them away to the Albany office (God help them!) Slowly they come home to visit for the holidays or because their company needs someone in the Cheektavegas location. Meanwhile he is one rung higher, if that, at Panera.

It takes this kind of person until their late 20s to get smacked out of the rut. Suggest that when he is around you talk about people you know who went to the local IBEW or whatever and took the test and are now an electrician apprentice and will make $30/hr in a few years. It will take time to get him to see the light.
The man who damns money has obtained it dishonorably; the man who respects it has earned it
November 23rd, 2019 at 8:23:35 AM permalink
Gandler
Member since: Aug 15, 2019
Threads: 10
Posts: 774
Is 13 an hour minimum wage where you live?

Or is that just the starting pay at Panera?

There is a big difference between a legally mandated minimum wage and a company with a high minimum starting pay.

I have heard Panera has decent pay and benifits compared to industry averages, so if it is there choice to pay more, that is their right.

It sounds like he is self-sufficient and living his life (without any debt), honestly he may be better off just staying with Panera than getting a history degree (not many jobs....) If he has the ability for free college, and your only goal for him is for him for maximise his income (presumably to take better care of your daughter), there are far better undergraduate degrees (Engineering or computer science)...

I actually am against minimum wage being raised. But, I have no problem with companies having voluntarily higher starting wages (that is the nature of competition).... I don't think it inherently encourages laziness, it allows some companies to attract more motivated employees, that likey would not otherwise work fast food Jobs. (For example, if I recall correctly, you constantly praise Chic Filet, they are well known for having above average pay and benifits to retain friendly employees. In California, ahead of a 15 dollar minimum wage hike, they raised their starting raise to 18 an hour to retain good workers...)
November 23rd, 2019 at 9:12:19 AM permalink
SOOPOO
Member since: Feb 19, 2014
Threads: 10
Posts: 1457
Thanks Az and Gandler.

I am not exactly sure what MW is here now, and for some stupid reason it is higher for fast food workers than say, a Walmart employee. My point was not that Panera is better or worse than any other fast food job. Just that the ceiling is extremely low. Any history teacher in any high school makes double what a long term FF worker makes.

My main point is it is easy at 21 with a roomie to make ends meet on the present artificially high MW. But that once life comes your way (no roomie, car breaks down, appendix bursts, a kid!, etc... ) then that ‘good’ Panera job ain’t good anymore.

The fake high MW, which overvalues low end work, misleads young people. I truly believe that my younger son, by working a summer at Walmart, seeing how little he actually made, learned a valuable lesson.
November 23rd, 2019 at 10:21:23 AM permalink
Gandler
Member since: Aug 15, 2019
Threads: 10
Posts: 774
Quote: SOOPOO
Thanks Az and Gandler.

I am not exactly sure what MW is here now, and for some stupid reason it is higher for fast food workers than say, a Walmart employee. My point was not that Panera is better or worse than any other fast food job. Just that the ceiling is extremely low. Any history teacher in any high school makes double what a long term FF worker makes.

My main point is it is easy at 21 with a roomie to make ends meet on the present artificially high MW. But that once life comes your way (no roomie, car breaks down, appendix bursts, a kid!, etc... ) then that ‘good’ Panera job ain’t good anymore.

The fake high MW, which overvalues low end work, misleads young people. I truly believe that my younger son, by working a summer at Walmart, seeing how little he actually made, learned a valuable lesson.


What State do you live in where Fast Food has a higher minimum wage? That sounds bizarre (I am not saying you are wrong, it just seems strange).

As for what he should do, that is not for me to say. Maybe he just needs some time to live life before starting college? Going to college immediately after HS is not always the best option for everyone. Maybe he should take some part time classes while working to see if he likes college level history classes? It is very possible to go to school while working, especially since many history classes can easily be online now (most involve self paced research and writing). If he likes working fulltime maybe suggest that he keep working while attending school part time?

I mean, your examples of emergencies would be critical for most working Americans, even for people making 80k, medical emergencies can easily bankrupt even well off people without the right insurance, and I forget the stats, but something like over 50% of working adults could not afford an unplanned 1k car repair, regardless of income level, many (maybe most) Americans live paycheck to paycheck, even if they have a higher paycheck they usually have more bills.

I agree that too high MWs are bad, and if your state has a different MW for hourly positions based on classification of work, that seems even stranger. I also agree that it is good for kids to work in the summer (I started working every summer since 14 in HS).
November 23rd, 2019 at 10:49:42 AM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 135
Posts: 20028
Quote: AZDuffman
First thing is I will put aside that history teacher is not a very good dream job,


For lots of reasons. History teachers
are not in demand, they are a dime
a dozen. If he wants to teach, get
an engineering or math degree.
With a history degree he'll be lucky
to get a teaching job in Bumcrap
W Virginia, or some inner city
slum school in Philly where all
the students are armed and he
isn't. If he's still 'finding himself'
at 21, my prediction is he'll never
do any of it.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
November 23rd, 2019 at 1:44:22 PM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 124
Posts: 11567
Quote: SOOPOO
Thanks Az and Gandler.

I am not exactly sure what MW is here now, and for some stupid reason it is higher for fast food workers than say, a Walmart employee. My point was not that Panera is better or worse than any other fast food job. Just that the ceiling is extremely low. Any history teacher in any high school makes double what a long term FF worker makes.

My main point is it is easy at 21 with a roomie to make ends meet on the present artificially high MW. But that once life comes your way (no roomie, car breaks down, appendix bursts, a kid!, etc... ) then that ‘good’ Panera job ain’t good anymore.

The fake high MW, which overvalues low end work, misleads young people. I truly believe that my younger son, by working a summer at Walmart, seeing how little he actually made, learned a valuable lesson.



I would say that it is a good thing that he has a roommate and lives on his own, that is a good sign. I would hope he moves up as he can at Panera. Shift manager, crew lead, management. The thing is at 21 you are not taken so serious for "real" jobs. Part of that is you are not serious at 21 these days. When I was a PCO we took chances on younger folk often, and 80% were busts. PCO work could be a good step for him but I digress.

So what happens is you meander thru until your late 20s then you get on a path. Even in banking we had 20somethins all over the joint but most were killing time until they could "do what they wanted to do."

If he is good at that type of work he could do well one day. Steak N Shake is trying to copy the Chick Fil A model with "operators" who lay out $10,0000 and keep half the profits. Regional managers at Panera probably make six figures. So you must ask if he is a good fit for that type of work or is he just going to be a "worker" there and when he has a kid be a burden to all?

As to History Teacher. No. No. No. No. No.^10^100.

I love history. We have "The History Channel" not "The Math Channel" for a reason. History is a major for lazy people.

Get him to watch Aaron Clarey on YT. Watch yourself for that matter. The guy tells it like it is.
The man who damns money has obtained it dishonorably; the man who respects it has earned it
November 23rd, 2019 at 2:06:28 PM permalink
SOOPOO
Member since: Feb 19, 2014
Threads: 10
Posts: 1457
I live in NY. As soon as the Democrats took control of all 3 powers of government last year, many totally bizarre‘progressive laws were enacted. I think within a year or so MW Afro FF workers will be $15. I’m not good at finding sources to quote. Google it and you will find it.
November 23rd, 2019 at 2:06:28 PM permalink
SOOPOO
Member since: Feb 19, 2014
Threads: 10
Posts: 1457
I live in NY. As soon as the Democrats took control of all 3 powers of government last year, many totally bizarre‘progressive laws were enacted. I think within a year or so MW Afro FF workers will be $15. I’m not good at finding sources to quote. Google it and you will find it.
November 23rd, 2019 at 2:19:34 PM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 124
Posts: 11567
Quote: SOOPOO
I live in NY. As soon as the Democrats took control of all 3 powers of government last year, many totally bizarre‘progressive laws were enacted. I think within a year or so MW Afro FF workers will be $15. I’m not good at finding sources to quote. Google it and you will find it.


IIRC the MW boost is divided upstate/downstate. Not that this is any better, but less awful for upstate employers.
The man who damns money has obtained it dishonorably; the man who respects it has earned it
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