Donald's Mexican wall

Quote: Mosca

Everyone is arguing about whether replacement wall is new wall. How about saying, “ No new mile of border wall has been constructed.” Because there is no disputing that. The wall might be new, but the coverage has not increased.

What troubles me is the new insistence on building at all cost: seizing land using eminent domain without following proper procedure, ignoring environmental impact, all with the promise of pardons. None of this has yet been done, but the reasons are obvious. There was no planning, there was no consideration. There was just “Build a wall.” And now that it is wall time, the enormity of the task dictates that it will take more time than is expedient to claim a political victory. So the bull charges ahead without regard to the law or the cost, metaphorically speaking.

Notice I take no stand on the need for the wall. But if you’re going to do it, then this slipshod approach: no plans, no infrastructure, no logistics, no accounting, no foresight; this is a situation set up for waste, fraud, and failure. You can’t wish or will a wall into existence.

What makes you say there was no planning? It has likely been planned for a couple decades. "Studies" are just code to not act. Look at Keystone XL. We won WWII almost three times in the time that was studied. A simple pipeline, of which there is already tens of thousands of miles in the USA.

If we had the mentality we do now in the 1600s the Mayflower would not be able to set sail.

Quote: AZDuffman

What makes you say there was no planning? It has likely been planned for a couple decades. "Studies" are just code to not act. Look at Keystone XL. We won WWII almost three times in the time that was studied. A simple pipeline, of which there is already tens of thousands of miles in the USA.

If we had the mentality we do now in the 1600s the Mayflower would not be able to set sail.

I never wrote the word “study”. I assume that the decision was made. I’m talking about the plans. Studying includes understanding that recklessness isn’t the answer. Once you’ve decided to do it, you assess the impact and plan accordingly. You see who you need to buy out, and you file the documents.

If it was planned then it wouldn’t be so slipshod. Why does private property need to be seized? And I don’t mean eminent domain, because there is a process for eminent domain. What Trump is asking for is outright seizure. And why does it need to be done before any environmental impact assessments are completed? And I’m not talking about protecting snail darters, I’m talking about watersheds and migratory patterns that could affect the region not just for years, but forever. Those should have been done long ago, so that it could be built with minimal impact on future generations.

When you say that it has likely been planned for decades, you are asking me to believe in efficient government. Think about that for a moment. Then consider that “decades” means, at the very least, the Clinton, Bush II, Obama, and Trump years.

As much as we disagree on many things, in no way affecting my enjoyment of your company on these forums... I think we can agree on that one. There is no way the government can stumble through the last 50 years but get that one thing right across multiple administrations. If there are plans, they are hand written, in pencil, wrapped in rubber bands, and stuffed in a filing cabinet next to a decades old grilled cheese sandwich.

Quote: Mosca

I never wrote the word “study”. I assume that the decision was made. I’m talking about the plans. Studying includes understanding that recklessness isn’t the answer. Once you’ve decided to do it, you assess the impact and plan accordingly. You see who you need to buy out, and you file the documents.

If it was planned then it wouldn’t be so slipshod. Why does private property need to be seized? And I don’t mean eminent domain, because there is a process for eminent domain. What Trump is asking for is outright seizure. And why does it need to be done before any environmental impact assessments are completed? And I’m not talking about protecting snail darters, I’m talking about watersheds and migratory patterns that could affect the region not just for years, but forever. Those should have been done long ago, so that it could be built with minimal impact on future generations.

When you say that it has likely been planned for decades, you are asking me to believe in efficient government. Think about that for a moment. Then consider that “decades” means, at the very least, the Clinton, Bush II, Obama, and Trump years.

As much as we disagree on many things, in no way affecting my enjoyment of your company on these forums... I think we can agree on that one. There is no way the government can stumble through the last 50 years but get that one thing right across multiple administrations. If there are plans, they are hand written, in pencil, wrapped in rubber bands, and stuffed in a filing cabinet next to a decades old grilled cheese sandwich.

Not a matter of "efficient government." I say it has been studied because the feds study everything and anything. The Pentagon has plans of what to do if the Brits and Canada unite and invade. They have a plan for any conceivable war. That is why they were able to plan to eject Iraq from Kuwait so fast, plan was already there. Ask Wiz how many things SS looked at. These things might have been studied in case Mexico put up a wall for all we know.

The US government both plays for keeps and does not like being surprised. History shows that much.

Quote: rxwine

That’s like me saying right wingers would support trump raising all their taxes to support social programs.

I am a right winger. Trump did raise my taxes. They support social programs. I support my taxes going up rather than having the deficit go up. Of course with the Dems and few Repubs blocking the repeal of Obamacare the deficit went up a lot anyway.

If I recall correctly, the failure to repeal obamacare came before the success of cutting taxes.
I think that order is important when evaluating which made the deficit go up a lot.

From the New York Times: Some retired Trump voters in Texas are upset because Trump's wall will cut their neighborhood in half and their United States houses will be on the Mexico side of the wall.

The Trump Administration has already upgraded about 60 miles of the previously existing border wall with a better, newer, stronger, taller wall that is virtually impossible to breach.

And by "virtually impossible to breach" I actually mean... it's easy. It can be done in a few minutes.

Quote: Washington Post

The breaches have been made using a popular cordless household tool known as a reciprocating saw that retails at hardware stores for as little as $100. When fitted with specialized blades, the saws can slice through one of the barrier’s steel-and-concrete bollards in a matter of minutes, according to the agents, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak publicly about the barrier-defeating techniques.

After cutting through the base of a single bollard, smugglers can push the steel out of the way, allowing an adult to fit through the gap. Because the bollards are so tall — and are attached only to a panel at the very top — their length makes them easier to push aside once they have been cut and are left dangling, according to engineers consulted by The Washington Post.

That Washington Post article was published this morning. But NBC News predicted this vulnerability to saws back in January 2019.

Big beautiful waste of money.

And Mexico still did’t pay for it.

Quote: rxwine

Big beautiful waste of money.t.

Yeah, no. There are always initial problems,
and problems can and will be solved. They
will keep hacking it and we will eventually
make it work. That's how these things evolve.

Quote: Evenbob

Yeah, no. There are always initial problems,
and problems can and will be solved. They
will keep hacking it and we will eventually
make it work. That's how these things evolve.

Republicans are too cheap to keep funding fixes. A Donald FAIL!