Democratic debates

July 1st, 2019 at 4:29:07 PM permalink
petroglyph
Member since: Aug 3, 2014
Threads: 25
Posts: 6227
Quote: terapined
Yawn
We already know extremists are nuts on both sides
Not news till the violence starts
https://www.gofundme.com/f/protect-andy-ngo-fund

Already started.
The last official act of any government is to loot the treasury. GW
July 1st, 2019 at 6:13:12 PM permalink
terapined
Member since: Aug 6, 2014
Threads: 73
Posts: 11786
Quote: petroglyph
https://www.gofundme.com/f/protect-andy-ngo-fund

Already started.


Yawn
Somebody got beat up
How many murders don't make the news
Sometimes we live no particular way but our own - Grateful Dead "Eyes of the World"
July 1st, 2019 at 6:39:04 PM permalink
petroglyph
Member since: Aug 3, 2014
Threads: 25
Posts: 6227
Quote: terapined
Yawn
Somebody got beat up
How many murders don't make the news
Just a violent predatory gang, similar to the KKK.
The last official act of any government is to loot the treasury. GW
July 5th, 2019 at 1:47:45 PM permalink
Wizard
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Threads: 239
Posts: 6095
Who was the candidate in the first debate who supported giving every American $1,000 a month?
Knowledge is Good -- Emil Faber
July 5th, 2019 at 1:48:58 PM permalink
Wizard
Administrator
Member since: Oct 23, 2012
Threads: 239
Posts: 6095
Never mind, it was Andrew Yang.



Here are Yang's policies. I'm considering supporting him.
Knowledge is Good -- Emil Faber
July 5th, 2019 at 4:31:52 PM permalink
odiousgambit
Member since: Oct 28, 2012
Threads: 154
Posts: 5055
Quote: Wizard
Never mind, it was Andrew Yang.

Here are Yang's policies. I'm considering supporting him.
There doesn't seem to be a progressive idea that ever came across the board that he doesn't like.

But considering only the UBI, it says [emphasis mine]

Quote: link within that link
How would we pay for Universal Basic Income?

It would be easier than you might think. Andrew proposes funding UBI by consolidating some welfare programs and implementing a Value-Added Tax (VAT) of 10%. Current welfare and social program beneficiaries would be given a choice between their current benefits or $1,000 cash unconditionally – most would prefer cash with no restriction....
This qualifier in bold is what keeps it from being absolutely bat-shit crazy and could actually work. In other words, we already have UBI to a large degree.

I therefore consider the proposal to not be bat-shit crazy, merely crazy [I'd never trust it to not develop into an insane giveaway in order to be accepted]
I'm Still Standing, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah [it's an old guy chant for me]
July 5th, 2019 at 5:01:41 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Quote: Wizard
Never mind, it was Andrew Yang.
I'm considering supporting him.


You be one of the dozens who do.
Congrats..
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
July 5th, 2019 at 9:41:54 PM permalink
Wizard
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Member since: Oct 23, 2012
Threads: 239
Posts: 6095
Quote: odiousgambit
I therefore consider the proposal to not be bat-shit crazy, merely crazy [I'd never trust it to not develop into an insane giveaway in order to be accepted]


If it were me, I would abolish ALL welfare programs at the same time. This will eliminate the incentive to not work and cheat the system. Las Vegas is fully of prostitutes making $200,000/yr. or more who are on welfare. My goal is to end the moral hazard of welfare that rewards able bodied people to make mistakes and those who work under the table to get assistance they don't deserve.

Yes, it will be expensive as hell, but with the free $12,000 per year, the middle class would hopefully break even or come out ahead. I don't have much sympathy for those making millions a year and they can make up the shortfall.

Big picture -- the more goods and services we create, the better our standard of living. By eliminating the incentive to not work, as a nation we create more and instill a work ethic as opposed to a welfare ethic.
Knowledge is Good -- Emil Faber
July 6th, 2019 at 4:45:50 AM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 135
Posts: 18136
Quote: Wizard


If it were me, I would abolish ALL welfare programs at the same time. This will eliminate the incentive to not work and cheat the system. Las Vegas is fully of prostitutes making $200,000/yr. or more who are on welfare. My goal is to end the moral hazard of welfare that rewards able bodied people to make mistakes and those who work under the table to get assistance they don't deserve.


The goal you state here is in line with the stated goal of UBI. On the surface it makes sense, no "programs" anymore, as an adult you get the deposit in your account and that is the end of it. Most likely they would kill SS at the same time. One payment for all. Problems will crop up in no time.

First is that we all know that politicians will not stick to this. It would take at least a constitutional amendment that says the government cannot have any other programs at all. Because someone will say, "This is still unfair, look at the people who cannot work and will never be able to do any better! Meanwhile, people are pocketing the money and still going to a better job!" Or, "Why does that single mother have to live on the same amount as some single guy with no kids? We need to bring back WIC so she can feed her kids!"

The industrious people will invest it and the people who spend every dime will spend it. Give me a UBI of $1,000 per month and I will be retired in 15 years or so. Give it to others and they will not know where it went. The same resentments will come up. Eventually there will be calls to means-test it, making it welfare again.

Finally, we cannot afford it! There are not enough rich people to take the money from. Even if the government took over drugs and prostitution rackets, this money cannot be created. The nations trying it usually have oil to sell, or some other way of funding it.
The President is a fink.
July 6th, 2019 at 5:42:36 AM permalink
Wizard
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Quote: AZDuffman
The industrious people will invest it and the people who spend every dime will spend it. Give me a UBI of $1,000 per month and I will be retired in 15 years or so. Give it to others and they will not know where it went. The same resentments will come up. Eventually there will be calls to means-test it, making it welfare again.


Does anyone make these comments with the annual payments to every resident of Alaska? As to means testing it, the wealthy will pay more in a value added tax than they get. Most reasonable people don't begrudge the wealthy for collecting Social Security, because they paid into it much more than they get out.

Quote:
Finally, we cannot afford it! There are not enough rich people to take the money from. Even if the government took over drugs and prostitution rackets, this money cannot be created. The nations trying it usually have oil to sell, or some other way of funding it.


I'd be interested to do some math on it. Can anyone (Paco) tell me the annual goods sold in the U.S., at the final point of sale? Maybe we could extrapolate from a state with a sales tax. At the end of the day, I'm not opposed to raising taxes significantly to get rid of welfare and provide a state option medical coverage for everybody.
Knowledge is Good -- Emil Faber