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rest in peace Koko, age 46

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June 23rd, 2018 at 3:25:04 PM permalink
Dalex64 Member since: Mar 8, 2014 Threads: 3 Posts: 3687	Quote: Wizard That was good. I don’t want to watch the whole talk but any truth to it? My source wasn't the Ted talk, but there are a number of websites that relate the story, and I didn't see any that refuted it. "Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." Daniel Patrick Moynihan

June 23rd, 2018 at 3:26:16 PM permalink
rxwine Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 189 Posts: 18762	C'mon, it was actually a cat, not Koko. You believe in an invisible god, and dismiss people who say they are trans? Really?

June 24th, 2018 at 5:20:50 AM permalink
Wizard Administrator Member since: Oct 23, 2012 Threads: 239 Posts: 6095	Quote: Fleastiff Even house cats lie. So what? As I said, its not just men and women in singles bars or Madison Avenue copywriters or journalists. What do House cats lie about? Knowledge is Good -- Emil Faber

June 24th, 2018 at 5:55:26 AM permalink

Pacomartin

Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 1068
Posts: 12569

Quote: Dalex64
My source wasn't the Ted talk, but there are a number of websites that relate the story, and I didn't see any that refuted it.

The story is in a number of places on the web, but much older references say that Koko blamed a woman named Kate (not a cat or a kitten). Koko was born on 4th of July 1971. The zoo held a contest to choose a name for the infant. The winning entry was Hanabi-Ko, Japanese for "Fireworks Child."

The story says Koko was age 5, so that would be 1976.

It's not clear that Koko could fabricate a lie where a kitten could break a sink.

Quote: The Education of Koko by Francine Patterson & Eugene Linden © 1981
When Koko was five she sat on the sink in the kitchen, causing it to cave slightly away from the counter. I then had an assistant named Kate Mann, a deaf woman Koko loved to blame things on. Kate was not, so far as I had noticed, prone to fits of violence. Thus, when I saw the broken sink and asked, “What happened here?” I was not disposed to believe Koko when she signed, Kate there bad. In fact, the image of a gorilla accusing a good-natured young woman of breaking the sink made it hard for me to maintain my pretense of irritation.

Koko’s first apparent lie also involved blaming some destruction on Kate. In May 1974, at age three, Koko was asked “Who broke this [toy] cat?” Koko replied, Kate cat. It was entirely clear that this was a lie, because Koko had been with Kate the day before when the toy cat was broken, and she may have been summoning random associations. However, in some of her more recent lies, her intent is so clear as to be comical.

But here is the same story in a published book (2005), but now Kate has been replaced by "the cat"
https://books.google.com/books?id=LJOE6N6QF4EC&pg=PA61#v=onepage&q&f=false

June 24th, 2018 at 6:51:14 AM permalink
Fleastiff Member since: Oct 27, 2012 Threads: 62 Posts: 7831	Quote: Wizard What do House cats lie about? Couple owned cat who would generally eat most of a breakfast but would leave a little bit for "an elevenses". However when Hubby and Wife woke up at markedly different times, cat would go back and finish her breakfast and then approach the late riser with a raised paw indicating "want breakfast".

June 24th, 2018 at 7:47:27 AM permalink
Dalex64 Member since: Mar 8, 2014 Threads: 3 Posts: 3687	How did they inform the cat that it was only supposed to have one breakfast? "Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." Daniel Patrick Moynihan

June 24th, 2018 at 7:48:55 AM permalink

Pacomartin

Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 1068
Posts: 12569

Quote: Wizard
What do House cats lie about?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deception_in_animals

A rather lengthy article in Wikipedia about Animal Deception.

Lying does involve keeping two versions of a chain of events in your mind ; version 1 is the true description of an event, and version 2 is false or fictional.

I sincerely doubt that animals can do that. I really wonder if the house cat's behavior to get a double breakfast involves keeping two events in it's brain, or if it is a learned response.

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