Ash Wednesday

Quote: AZDuffman

No harm.

What is crazy is I now see a pack costing what I remember the carton used to cost. Forget telling kids about cancer, tell them how much money they will waste!

You have hit the nail on the head. I don’t get how a heavy smoker can justify it financially. They are incredibly expensive here too, close to $40 a packet I believe. A chain smoker would go through an incredible amount of money. The percentage of the population that smokes has plummeted here since I was a child. Pretty sure the constantly rising price has had just as much of an effect as the revolting photos they are required to put on the packets.

Quote: AZDuffman

What is crazy is I now see a pack costing what I remember the carton used to cost. Forget telling kids about cancer, tell them how much money they will waste!

Since I was a kid a pack a day habit would allow you to make the payments on a middle of the road car and still does. I am a non smoker and that always seemed so much a no brainer, an new car or smoking.

Quote: Aussie

They are incredibly expensive here too, close to $40 a packet I believe.

Can you Americanize that? Is a "packet" equal to "one pack of 20 cigarettes"? That seems too ridiculous, so perhaps a "packet" equals "10 packs of 20 cigs each", what we call a "carton"?

Here in NY, taxes are THREE TIMES THE COST. A bootleg, unstamped pack of premium cigs, like Marb or Newport, costs about $2.50. With the stamp, like you'd see in stores, they're $11 and change. One pack. 20 cigs. Half a days worth (=p). Eleven freaking dollars.

I suppose what with my extreme mental problems regarding money, it'd be enough to quit. But I live in Indian Country. $2 a pack, $20 a carton, and now that they're grown, processed, packaged AND sold completely within Indian Country, no way for the State to come in and shut things down like they did in the mid 90's. $20 cartons will likely be around as long as I'm alive, a length of time which shortens probably 3 days for every one I spend.

It's a really f#$%ed up thing. Along with snorting, I used to freebase (smoke cocaine). When my guy with the great stuff moved, I stopped that week. It was simply a lesser product being offered after he was gone, and was no longer worth the spend. Took less than zero effort, and this is supposed to be the worst thing to kick. I was on opiates daily for TWELVE YEARS. Again, when my supply dried up (loss of insurance), I stopped on the spot. I didn't seize, shake, itch, sweat, hallucinate, feen, nothing. Sucks to be in so much pain again, but there was not one single mote of addiction troubles at play.

But cigs, man... I recall our own gore campaign. Was commercial featuring an autopsy of a guy who is now younger than I am now. Died of a heart attack. They removed his aorta and squeezed it like a tube of caulk, which caused all the fatty deposits (of which there was a ton) to come oozing out. It was the most traumatic anti-smoking thing I had even seen. And see it I did. A lot. And EVERY SINGLE TIME it reminded me of how badly I wanted a smoke. And I went and had one every single time.



A determined individual, indeed.

Quote: Face

And I went and had one every single time..

It's fairly obvious by looking at
your life that you have a death
wish, or at least a self destruction
bent. Look at it this way, you've
so punished your body in so many
ways, old age is going to be a
travesty for you. Even now, in your
30's, you're in constant pain. Do you
think that gets better in your 40's and
50's? Lets alone the 60's and 70's.

Just live how you like at this point
and don't worry about it.

Quote: Evenbob

It's fairly obvious by looking at
your life that you have a death
wish, or at least a self destruction
bent.

It's not me. It's whomever took up residence in that spot of brain I killed on the side of the road in October '98.

Edit: Remember "The Dark Half"? That, in a nutshell.

Quote: EB

Just live how you like at this point
and don't worry about it.

I've tried that. All I got me was a drug problem at the head of a long line of shattered vehicles.

I'm 37 and I still need my own dad. "Living how I want" is no longer my choice to make.

(Sorry for the huge derail, FrG)

Quote: Face

"Living how I want" is no longer my choice to make.)

So now you'll live how others want
you to live. No you won't, get real.

Face, I wouldn't call this a derail. I'd call it possibly an attempt to get back on track, for both of us. You've called the quit line - biggest step in umpteen years and I've engaged the Wizard to come up with some crazy incentive to remain true to what I feel God is calling me to do. I think you feel a change a coming too. I know you through your writing and the brilliant way you share a story. You have a gift and as you remind me on occasion, you are a really good guy. Don't give up and may I humbly suggest calling upon a higher power. Or at least a couple of people who love ya to help.

Quote: AZDuffman

What is crazy is I now see a pack costing what I remember the carton used to cost. Forget telling kids about cancer, tell them how much money they will waste!

This is an issue I've changed my position on. I used to say "Heck yeah, tax anyone who isn't me, especially if they are blowing second-hand smoke in my face." However, since I feel that smokers actually benefit me by dying early and consuming less retirement money and medical care, I should be thanking them -- as long as they keep they don't exhale withing 20 feet of me.

Quote: Wizard

This is an issue I've changed my position on. I used to say "Heck yeah, tax anyone who isn't me, especially if they are blowing second-hand smoke in my face." However, since I feel that smokers actually benefit me by dying early and consuming less retirement money and medical care, I should be thanking them -- as long as they keep they don't exhale withing 20 feet of me.

This was the dirty little secret in the 1990s. Prior to the MSA several states were all filing lawsuits to shake down tobacco companies for "medicare costs" or other costs of smokers. Some folks pointed out what you did, that smokers dying early SAVED the states money. Of course, tobacco companies played this card at their peril, because it would admit their product was dangerous, which IIRC they still had never done pre-1997.

As a question, when you did your work at SSA, did you take smoking rates into account in your models?

Quote: Face

Here in NY, taxes are THREE TIMES THE COST. A bootleg, unstamped pack of premium cigs, like Marb or Newport, costs about $2.50. With the stamp, like you'd see in stores, they're $11 and change. One pack. 20 cigs. Half a days worth (=p). Eleven freaking dollars.

I suppose what with my extreme mental problems regarding money, it'd be enough to quit. But I live in Indian Country. $2 a pack, $20 a carton, and now that they're grown, processed, packaged AND sold completely within Indian Country, no way for the State to come in and shut things down like they did in the mid 90's. $20 cartons will likely be around as long as I'm alive, a length of time which shortens probably 3 days for every one I spend.

When NY and NYC passed that I thought the bill should have been called "The Mafia Full Employment Act." I believe untaxed packs are still a huge problem in NYC. I had some downstate guys doing a job in Niagara Falls in 2001, before it got really bad. When we stopped on the Indian Reservation and the private label was $0.99.....dabba nabbala!

Quote: Aussie

You have hit the nail on the head. I don’t get how a heavy smoker can justify it financially. They are incredibly expensive here too, close to $40 a packet I believe. A chain smoker would go through an incredible amount of money. The percentage of the population that smokes has plummeted here since I was a child. Pretty sure the constantly rising price has had just as much of an effect as the revolting photos they are required to put on the packets.

When I was a kid, 2-Pack-A-Day smokers were all over. What really killed that was pre-late-1980s you could smoke most places, even at your desk at work. Places where it said "No Smoking" often ignored it, where I worked the managers often smoked right in the no smoking areas. Socially people did not even bother to ask if someone "minded." That is different now. Price was the other stick.

Quote: kenarman

Since I was a kid a pack a day habit would allow you to make the payments on a middle of the road car and still does. I am a non smoker and that always seemed so much a no brainer, an new car or smoking.

Woman I used to work for lives 2 blocks up from me. Rent for a small place is $500-650. When her daughter showed up (a real piece of work and a whole sad story in and of herself) she bought smokes for both. $400 per month! More than my mortgage, more than my car payment. I got a pretty nice albeit used SUV, it is <$300 per month. I just shook my head when I heard.


MANAGEMENT--sorry for more derail, too many good replies to resist, so I at least consolidated it all.

Quote: Wizard

This is an issue I've changed my position on. I used to say "Heck yeah, tax anyone who isn't me, especially if they are blowing second-hand smoke in my face." However, since I feel that smokers actually benefit me by dying early and consuming less retirement money and medical care, I should be thanking them -- as long as they keep they don't exhale withing 20 feet of me.

We also fund a metric ton of programs through our incredible taxes.

If I'm ever around for a cycling challenge, I'll ride behind you. I'll probably need the draft to keep up, anyways =p