GOP Convention

I half-wish I understood what Trump's supporters are so angry about. I'd have grasped this level of anger and outright hatred in 2008, when the economy was tanking, and in 2012 when it hadn't quite recovered from a really harsh recession, the Obamacare battle had been miserably and incompetently lost, terrorism still loomed large, Iraq was an unholy mess, and international relations had still not recovered from Bush's obnoxious gunboat diplomacy.

But now? The economy's ok, not great but ok. Gas prices are low. Immigration is down. While terrorism is on the upswing, it's mostly abroad and on a scale far, far below what happened on September 11th 2001. Crime is still trending downwards, with few, mostly geographical exceptions. There are no major international crises, though the Greece situation could blow up at any minute, and the Brexit won't help; but regarding that, the US cannot do much.

Seriously, what is making so many people so angry, they want a thoroughly unqualified, proto-fascist man with delusions of grandeur to take over? Is it because Hillary was the clear favorite at the start of the primary season? She was the clear favorite back in '08, too. Granted she's utterly contemptible, but not as much as Trump. She is well-versed enough in politics to know she can't just do what she wants once she's elected. Trump, on the other hand, is completely ignorant about politics and the Constitution. He's like an entitled, spoiled kid. We know how they fare when they enter the work force. That's what Trump can look forward to.

Quote: Nareed

I half-wish I understood what Trump's supporters are so angry about.

I blame Fox News.

Actually, Trump says mostly the same things he said thirty years ago. We are getting a raw deal, nobody is standing up for us, we are used and abused.

Illegal Immigration peaked during the President Bill Clinton years. the Urban population of the USA increased by 35.3 million that decade.

End Year	rural	urban	comments
2010	+0.4	+26.9
2000	-2.6	+35.3	illegal migration
1990	+2.2	+20.0
1980	+5.9	+17.4	birth rate drops
1970	-0.5	+24.4
1960	-0.4	+28.4
1950	-3.0	+22.1
1940	+3.4	+5.5	great deoressuib
1930	+2.3	+14.9
1920	+1.6	+12.2	southern europe
1910	+4.2	+11.8	southern europe
change	13.5	219.0
millions	46.0	30.2

Quote: Nareed

I half-wish I understood what Trump's supporters are so angry about.

Middle class and lower, people are
doing worse every year economically,
not better. Many are making less money
in the same jobs they had 10 years ago.
Industry in entire towns has moved away.
The real unemployment rate is over 20%,
95 million able bodied people without
jobs. Home ownership is the lowest its
been since 1965. “Home prices are rising
so much faster than incomes, so it’s hard
for buyers to save for a down payment.”

College grads are living
with their parents in record numbers
because they can't find jobs to pay off
their student loans.

They're is palpable unrest here, and people
rally behind Trump because regular politicians
are screwing them royally.

Quote: Evenbob

Middle class and lower, people are
doing worse every year economically,
not better. Many are making less money
in the same jobs they had 10 years ago.
Industry in entire towns has moved away.
The real unemployment rate is over 20%,
95 million able bodied people without
jobs. Home ownership is the lowest its
been since 1965. “Home prices are rising
so much faster than incomes, so it’s hard
for buyers to save for a down payment.”

And while all of this is happening half the politicians are bragging about bringing in more refugees and illegal aliens. And elites wonder why there is anger?

Quote: Pacomartin

I blame Fox News.

Who doesn't?

Quote:

Actually, Trump says mostly the same things he said thirty years ago.

That's just the point. Thirty years ago, hell four years ago, he'd have attracted a fringe following and nothing more. He's won a major party nomination this year.

Quote: AZDuffman

And while all of this is happening half the politicians are bragging about bringing in more refugees and illegal aliens. And elites wonder why there is anger?

I completely agree, the lower earners are squeezed horribly, and not just through taxation. Yet, in the past, the response from the right has been trickle down economics and tax cuts for the rich. I've said it before... the wage disparity is a problem. More and more of the pie is going to less and less people. Trickle down economics is a big lie that the rich have sold you. You'll people can earn what they can negotiate, and it's none of our business how much CEOs earn for their incredible hard jobs. Every time that little bit extra profit goes into a small set of pockets, you squeeze the poor a little more, and stop the effects of growth (because the US economy is growing) reaching all boats.

That doesn't mean the answer is more government or controls and rules.

Quote: TheCesspit

That doesn't mean the answer is more government or controls and rules.

Less. The same?

Outsourcing jobs and letting illegal immigrants come in and work pretty much should have similar results. Someone in the host country has to work another job or take cheaper wages.

OTOH, a consumer may just care that his product is cheaper.

OTOH, ignoring the geo/political climate means that we might destabilize an area which is resource poor if we don't artificially prop up the price we pay them.

OTOH, people in host country complain if not enough work, or not enough high wages regardless of other concerns.

OTOH, people complain about government regulations, not sure if the government is hurting them or helping them, or it's all a scam. It could be all three at times.

OTOH, it really shouldn't be cheaper to send Chinese steel across the ocean, than make it here.

It's complicated.

Quote: TheCesspit

I completely agree, the lower earners are squeezed horribly, and not just through taxation. Yet, in the past, the response from the right has been trickle down economics and tax cuts for the rich. I've said it before... the wage disparity is a problem.

Even so, Trump hasn't even addressed that issue, much less offered even a vague proposal on how to deal with it. all he's doing is scapegoating various groups for whatever grievance du jour he feels like ranting about.

All nations and all governments have problems. But it's when they look outside themselves for causes that they get into real trouble.

Labor is a commodity. People get paid what they are worth to whoever is paying them. Labor is still cheap thanks to the ruling class not doing anything to help grow the economy. Growth would lead to full employment like we had before the Obama depression.

Quote: TheCesspit

I completely agree, the lower earners are squeezed horribly, and not just through taxation. Yet, in the past, the response from the right has been trickle down economics and tax cuts for the rich. I've said it before... the wage disparity is a problem. More and more of the pie is going to less and less people. Trickle down economics is a big lie that the rich have sold you. You'll people can earn what they can negotiate, and it's none of our business how much CEOs earn for their incredible hard jobs. Every time that little bit extra profit goes into a small set of pockets, you squeeze the poor a little more, and stop the effects of growth (because the US economy is growing) reaching all boats.

That doesn't mean the answer is more government or controls and rules.

Trickle-down works. Ask anyone who has a wealthy client or a few hiring them out for various services. Lower tax rates mean more businesses are started and invested in. Anyone who knows ROI and understands that the better it is the more risk tolerance the more investment that will happen.

The pie is way bigger than it once was, but the pressure comes from below, not above. Millions of illegals working dirt cheap and sending that cash out of the USA is a real thing. Alan Mulally was worth millions more than a line worker because he saved the company, the line worker just did the same job.

People think the CEO is overpaid, or so many other positions. I ask they why do they not apply for the CEO position if it is so great?

Of course the reason is they do not just hand out CEO jobs. They do not just hand out so many jobs. You have to want to make it. You have to make sales and profit along the way. And the biggie, you have to motivate others to get things done. This is extremely hard and stressful. Ask any manager their biggest problems and "good people" will be right there at or near the top.

So much of the problems of the lower classes are self-inflicted. One of the biggest is the out-of-wedlock birth explosion. Want to be broke? Having kids without a husband is the fastest route. If you are a guy, knock up a gal and kiss 10-20% of your paycheck bye-bye right off the top, even before the feds! What CEOs make has zero to do with that. Lots of other self-inflicted problems from dope to trouble with the law as well keep people down.