Yet another aviation thread.

Quote: Nareed

And most people buy such tickets voluntarily :)

It's 39 miles different either way, and it is 17 hours in one segment vs 14 hours in one segment.
MEL - DXB - LHR : 7,231 mi + 3,421 mi = 10,652 mi
MEL - PER - LHR : 1,682 mi + 9,010 mi = 10,691 mi (39 miles extra)

I think the Perth stop takes about a half an hour less because they can do the layover faster since you don't have to change planes or go through even cursory customs. They may not sell tickets for just the MEL-PER segment ( 1,682 mi) alone since there are other planes that fly that route. You can move even faster if there is only one of onloading or deboarding.

No word if Qantas is going to shortcut Sydney and Brisbane
SYD DXB LHR: 10,902 mi
SYD PER LHR: 11,051 mi (59 miles extra)

BNE DXB LHR: 10,863 mi
BNE PER LHR: 11,256 mi (607 miles extra)

Quote: Pacomartin

Quote: Nareed

And most people buy such tickets voluntarily :)

It's 39 miles different either way, and it is 17 hours in one segment vs 14 hours in one segment.
MEL - DXB - LHR : 7,231 mi + 3,421 mi = 10,652 mi
MEL - PER - LHR : 1,682 mi + 9,010 mi = 10,691 mi (39 miles extra)

There is a greater difference than 39 miles and 3 hours. Civilization.

Who wants to be in some intermediate airport in some place with passengers getting thrown into prison for kissing in public or being slightly tipsy in a bar or beheaded for whatever offends the whim of some strutting jerk whose fruit juice that morning turned out to really be fruit juice.

Perth is civilized and if you extend your trip by a day or two quite enjoyable, though a bit expensive. Sure it adds time to the "business trip" but if you are an executive on a business trip its okay to spend time as well as money. Even if its just an airport layover, who would choose a war zone over peaceful Perth.

Quote: Fleastiff

Who wants to be in some intermediate airport in some place with passengers getting thrown into prison for kissing in public or being slightly tipsy in a bar or beheaded for whatever offends the whim of some strutting jerk whose fruit juice that morning turned out to really be fruit juice.

Dubai is not really that extreme of a place. On the other hand Doha is very conservative.

The advertised aircraft range of a B747–400 is 7670 nautical miles.
The advertised range of an B787-9 is 7635 nautical miles.
Los Angeles to Singapore is 7621 nautical miles (second longest route on B787-9) United ~ 14 nmi under advertised range
Perth to London is 7829 nautical miles using the great circle. (longest route on B787-9) Qantas~ 194 nmi over advertised range

Qantas configures their B787-9 with 42 business class, 28 premium economy and 166 economy seats for 236 seats total.
United Airlines configures with 48 business, 88 premium economy, and 116 economy for 252 seats total.
Norwegian Air packs 343 seats in the same plane.

The fact that their are 16 seats less on the Qantas than United flight alone hardly seems enough to make up the extra mileage.

On 16-17 August 747-400 in 1989 flew 9200 nautical miles nonstop from London to Sydney. In order to maximize range, a special high-density fuel was used, the tanks were filled to overflowing and the aircraft was towed to the runway holding point before starting engines. The engines themselves were specially chosen examples. To save weight all non-essentials, such as galley equipment, were removed. In addition to the five pilots, there were two cabin crew and sixteen passengers aboard for the planned 20 hour flight. So a plane can fly well over it's specified range with special considerations.

I wonder what special considerations Qantas uses on this flight? For example do they not carry any cargo other than passenger's luggage? Is there an auxiliary fuel tank? Are they expecting an intermediate fuel stop if the headwinds are bad?

What happens if they get to Heathrow and there is an unanticipated emergency and they have to circle the airport? I suppose the same thing is possible at Perth, but with only 14 million passengers per year, I assume it is much less likely.

A few unplanned fuel stops and people will probably return to flying the Middle East Airlines.

To be clear, Qantas is no longer flying any jets to Dubai at all (like they have been doing for the last 5 years). But they remain partners with Emirates who is still flying 11 flights per day to 5 Australian cities (some continuing on to New Zealand).

They are still flying one A380 to London, but have returned to Singapore as their fuel stop. Qantas has three A380 US routes (SYD-DFW, SYD-LAS, MEL-LAX) .

But the B747 from Brisbane to LAX and on to JFK is being replaced by a Dreamliner at some point in the next few months. Qantas already has a Dreamliner on Melbourne to LAX and (of course) Melbourne to Perth to London.

Quote: Pacomartin

But the B747 from Brisbane to LAX and on to JFK is being replaced by a Dreamliner at some point in the next few months. Qantas already has a Dreamliner on Melbourne to LAX and (of course) Melbourne to Perth to London.

About that: http://onemileatatime.boardingarea.com/2018/03/29/qantas-fined-jfk-lax/

Though I liked the headline "Airline Fined for Selling Tickets" better :)

Quote: Pacomartin

Dubai is not really that extreme of a place. On the other hand Doha is very conservative.

I am certain you are correct on this but if I ever get confused between the two or if my plane gets diverted for some reason I will surely wish I had booked thru Perth rather than Potentate.

Its public perceptions that count and my perceptions is that Perth is civilized and cooler.

Qantas would allow passengers to book their New York to Los Angeles flight in conjunction with codeshare flights from Los Angeles to Tahiti on Air Tahiti Nui, as well as codeshare flights between Los Angeles and Auckland on American.

Quote: Nareed

Though I liked the headline "Airline Fined for Selling Tickets" better :)

It seems like something that could have been cleared up before the tickets were sold.

With downsizing from a Boeing 747-400ER (364 seats) to a Boeing 787–9 (236 seats) is it opens up the possibility of Qantas making use of Vancouver or Tijuana.

For instance AA #2796 flies once daily from JFK to San Diego on on Boeing 737-800 with 16 first class seats 30 main cabin extra and 114-126 economy.AA competes with both Delta and Jetblue on the JFK-SAN flight. A Qantas Boeing 787–9 has 42 business, 28 premium economy, and 166 economy.

If AA were to discontinue their flight to San Diego, and Qantas lands in Tijuana airport, then Qantas could sell tickets to San Diegans flying from California to JFK to make up the empty seats coming across the Pacific. Certainly some Australians want to go to San Diego as well as LAX. Mexico could sweeten the deal by opening a shop to sell silver gifts and expensive bottles of Tequila to Australians duty free to take back as gifts. Passengers could use the bridge to get into California. Right now there is also no flights from Tijuana into the USA, so some Mexicans could also fly to JFK as well.

Of course, this scenario would presume that American and Qantas could get their Anti Trust immunity signed with US Trade Department, and they could split all proceeds 50/50.



Qantas already flies from Sydney to Vancouver, but with a plane smaller than a B747 they could go on through to JFK They would be legally free to sell tickets from Vancouver to JFK. This trick is already being done by both Cathay Pacific (Hong Kong- Vancouver-JFK) and Philippine Airlines (Manila- Vancouver–JFK) where both airlines sell tickets to on the Vancouver-JFK to pay for additional costs.

Delta Air Lines sell Seasonal tickets from Vancouver to JFK, but there is no other competition with the 5th freedom flights.

It's time for a paradox: ultra-long haul jet travel time is both too long and not long enough.

This means spending 14-17 hours in an economy seat is too much, with real risks to one's sanity and health (like deep vein thrombosis). One's temper and mood are not at risk. One is certain to have one's mood and temper ruined, no question.

It also means it's not long enough that airlines won't offer it, or that people won't take it.

Quote: Nareed

This means spending 14-17 hours in an economy seat is too much....

See, the old way of travel involved 14 hours Melbourne to Dubai. The new way involves 17 hours from Perth to London.
MEL - DXB - LHR : 7,231 mi + 3,421 mi = 10,652 miles: A380
MEL - PER - LHR : 1,682 mi + 9,010 mi = 10,691 miles (39 miles extra): B787-9 midsize Dreamliner

I don't see that much difference either way.

In the future they could stop at Ceylon, and possibly do the entire trip in economy in a narrowbody plane.
MEL-CMB -LHR : 5,191 mi + 5,418 mi = 10,608 miles

If the A321LR flies 4725 miles so the next iteration (the A322) will be developed to counter the B797.