Hey FrGamble!

May 22nd, 2020 at 6:14:42 PM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 65
Posts: 7436
Quote: Evenbob
If that were true, maybe. But
it's not true, it's a story you
were told and you believed
it.


Is that all you have? You keep saying that even though I have outlined two different logical arguments. You are acting like a child. Please add some substance to the above. Would you like me to respond that your false ideas of atheism is a story you were told and you believed it? You must have some other reason besides your personal feelings. Maybe you have some logical argument or evidence, please present it as I have done for you!
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (
May 22nd, 2020 at 10:33:05 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 138
Posts: 21964
Quote: FrGamble
I like that kind of answer too. However, don't make the mistake thinking that you still don't need a first cause or a non-contingent supernatural creator of all things. .


Only a mistake if you are tied
to the anchor of a god religion.
In religion god is the first answer
to any question. In science god
is the last answer and shouldn't
be on the list of answers at all.
There no question in science
that's answered, blame it on god.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
May 22nd, 2020 at 10:39:44 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 138
Posts: 21964
Quote: FrGamble
Is that all you have?


It's 95% of your argument. You
were told a story as a child and
you believed it. So you spend
all your time defending it with
'logic' and 'reason' that isn't
logic and reason at all. You think
you can make any wild statement
and make it true by claiming it's
'obvious' and 'clear' to anybody
with half a brain. Mud is clearer
than your logic and reason, and
no amount of bullying from your
priest bully pulpit will change it,
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
May 23rd, 2020 at 2:57:15 AM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 65
Posts: 7436
I am not making a wild statement. I am saying that for this universe to come into existence or move or follow strict natural laws there needs to be a cause. Is that wild?

Let's look at what you are saying: that the material world has always existed without a cause and that motion is unexplainable and that even with an infinite amount of time somehow entropy is still happening. You believe in a universe that cannot have time since the present moment rests on a finite number of past events that require a first moment.

Bob you are speaking nonsense. Your only response has been to insult and say over and over again that I am not logical or reasonable. Just deal with the fact the universe has a cause, that is something that I reckon 100% of scientists would at least ponder about and would never deny. Why do you?
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (
May 23rd, 2020 at 4:46:56 AM permalink
SOOPOO
Member since: Feb 19, 2014
Threads: 15
Posts: 2278
Quote: FrGamble
I am not making a wild statement. I am saying that for this universe to come into existence or move or follow strict natural laws there needs to be a cause. Is that wild?


No. Not wild. As I've said a few times before, just because I can't figure out the answer to a question doesn't mean your answer is correct. The human brain just has limitations. Which through technology we keep overcoming. Padre, imagine a really bright 17th century guy transported to 2020 USA. And he saw an Iphone. It wouldn't appear to be God to him? He just sailed over weeks across an ocean, and he can talk to his family he left thousands of miles behind? That would violate the 'strict natural laws' as he knows them, right? He would only believe it was supernatural in some sense?

To me, it is equally hard for me to believe the universe 'came into existence' as it is for me to believe 'it has always been here'. For all I know there is a third option that I can't even conceive of yet.
May 23rd, 2020 at 5:24:59 AM permalink
Dalex64
Member since: Mar 8, 2014
Threads: 3
Posts: 3349
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/something-from-nothing-vacuum-can-yield-flashes-of-light/

Virtual particles are constantly winking in and out of existence, but sometimes they leave something behind.

Leave enough somethings behind, they can collect and collapse into a singularity that becomes a big bang.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." Daniel Patrick Moynihan
May 23rd, 2020 at 9:32:18 AM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 138
Posts: 21964
Quote: FrGamble
I am saying that for this universe to come into existence or move or follow strict natural laws there needs to be a cause.


"...when people ask me if a god created the universe, I tell them the question itself makes no sense. Time didn’t exist before the Big Bang, so there is no time for God to make the universe in." Stephen Hawking

It's easy to accept that the
universe has been here
forever when you realize
that time is not a constant.
Time is here and there in
the universe, something
we cannot comprehend
because we're stuck is it
like a fish is stuck in the
ocean.

I take pity on you that you
have to constantly defend
whatever theory your
whacko church supports.
My ex priest friend says
you have no choice, you
take an vow when you
become a priest that
you will uphold and defend
all the churches beliefs. If
you stray from that you
lose your job. How awful
for you.

That's what happened to my
priest friend. He strayed,
was asking too many questions
and heard he was being fired
so he quit before they could
do it. Best thing he ever did,
he says.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
May 23rd, 2020 at 12:38:31 PM permalink
petroglyph
Member since: Aug 3, 2014
Threads: 24
Posts: 5237
Quote: Dalex64
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/something-from-nothing-vacuum-can-yield-flashes-of-light/

Virtual particles are constantly winking in and out of existence, but sometimes they leave something behind.

Leave enough somethings behind, they can collect and collapse into a singularity that becomes a big bang.
"Now quantum physicist Pasi Lähteenmäki at Aalto University in Finland and his colleagues reveal that by varying the speed at which light can travel, they can make light appear from nothing."

Good article. More evidence that even in a vacuum the area within, is not empty. Supports my theory that there is no "nothing".
Everyone gets thrown from the plane to maintain altitude
May 23rd, 2020 at 2:38:16 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 138
Posts: 21964
Quote: Evenbob
"...when people ask me if a god created the universe, I tell them the question itself makes no sense. Time didn’t exist before the Big Bang, so there is no time for God to make the universe in." Stephen Hawking

It's easy to accept that the
universe has been here
forever when you realize
that time is not a constant.
Time is here and there in
the universe, something
we cannot comprehend
because we're stuck is it
like a fish is stuck in the
ocean..


It's interesting that in the
professional research being
done on kids remembering
past lives, they sometimes
run across a kid that took
5-6-7 years to come back
into another body. They
report that during those
years they were in a place
where there was no time,
like being in suspended
animation. They were not
aware years had passed.

Remember these are 3-4
year old kids saying this
stuff and they always
tell the same story. It's
a limbo of some sort,
not scary, not fun, just
a place where they are
not aware of time passing.

Interesting.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
May 23rd, 2020 at 3:19:24 PM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 65
Posts: 7436
Quote: SOOPOO
No. Not wild. As I've said a few times before, just because I can't figure out the answer to a question doesn't mean your answer is correct. The human brain just has limitations. Which through technology we keep overcoming. Padre, imagine a really bright 17th century guy transported to 2020 USA. And he saw an Iphone. It wouldn't appear to be God to him? He just sailed over weeks across an ocean, and he can talk to his family he left thousands of miles behind? That would violate the 'strict natural laws' as he knows them, right? He would only believe it was supernatural in some sense?

To me, it is equally hard for me to believe the universe 'came into existence' as it is for me to believe 'it has always been here'. For all I know there is a third option that I can't even conceive of yet.


I don't think you are giving our smart 17th century friend enough credit. Once it was explained and shown to be in accord with the strict natural laws it would be just amazing technology. However, your point is well taken it would be hard to believe and maybe since he had no knowledge of electricity hardly or electromagnetic waves it might seem supernatural.

The end of your post could be considered an Agnostic Creed. It is hard to believe the universe came into existence, I get that. All the matter of the universe packed into a space smaller than the period at the end of this sentence. Yes, to believe that and have a problem with someone walking on water seem hypocritical. Science is awesome and amazing! So is our God! Just like you might not be giving the 17th century guy enough credit I don't think you are giving yourself enough credit. Humanity has thought about the question of the origin of the universe since the very beginning. I think it takes a heck of a lot more faith than I have to think there is any answer or idea out there that is possible, which we haven't thought about. Logic also helps us because it is not changeable. X and not-X will never be the same thing no matter what.
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (