Catholic Church Collapsing

Quote: Nareed

There is a world of difference between an atheist and an agnostic. Well beyond semantics.

I never said otherwise.

Quote: Wizard

I never said otherwise.

360 is enough for me. I don't want to go 720.

Quote: Nareed

There is a world of difference between an atheist and an agnostic. Well beyond semantics.

I was an agnostic for a long time. I slowly
came to realize I was an atheist. Much
less thought involved. None, actually.
If evidence of a god ever is presented,
I'll look at it. I'm not holding my breath.

I don't read Nareed's posts but I think I get the gist of where she is leading you astray.

First of all the statement there is no God demands some evidence just as the statement "there is a God" does. They are both statements attempting to establish a truth. However since we don't live in a courtroom and because even though we might like to be Dr. Spock we are human, the evidence we need is not the same as in a courtroom or in a laboratory. Think again how in real life we come to believe in things. Often we get glimpses or hints that point us in the right direction. We don't need the bloody glove to not fit in order to acquit. There is more than enough to move us easily towards a belief in God, a belief that grows stronger once we live it and experience it. There is absolutely nothing logical or scientific that would even allude to the idea there is no God. Atheism is the only bad choice in the real world where true decisions are made and acted upon.

Quote: FrGamble

Atheism is the only bad choice

My gosh you are obtuse. For the hundredth
time, atheism is NOT a choice. It's the lack
of a choice because of a lack of evidence.

In order for there to be a choice, there must be
more than one position to choose from. Atheism
is not a thing, it's the lack of a thing. Atheism is
not a position, it's the lack of one. There is
no evidence of god, so there is no choice involved.

You act like atheists are walking around purposely
ignoring all the glaring evidence of a god, and make
the choice to pretend it doesn't exist and be an
atheist instead. That's the exact opposite of what's
really happening.

Quote: Evenbob

You act like atheists are walking around purposely
ignoring all the glaring evidence of a god, and make
the choice to pretend it doesn't exist and be an
atheist instead.

I wouldn't say all atheists purposely ignore the evidence. Many are atheists through no fault of their own and some of them are justly turned off by religion or a belief in God because of how they were raised or the actions of a certain minister or believers.

However, for an atheist to claim there is no evidence of God is not true and dishonest. They can claim that the evidence given is not convincing if they would like, but this phony baloney attitude that "atheism isn't a choice, it is the lack of a position" is really quite silly. If you really felt there was no evidence either for a God or against a God then why take a position at all, wouldn't it make more sense to be an agnostic?

What happens when you build something without a foundation?

The Ancient Egyptian knew to dig through the desert sands down to bedrock to lay the foundations for their funerary monuments and temples. They still stand, some of them after nearly 5,000 years.

Religions have stood longer than that on no foundations. Is it any surprise they have finally begun to collapse?

Analogies are never exact. And humanity being as it is, no one alive today will live to witness the full collapse of religion. But we are witnessing its decline, and where possible we can help it along. We can be magnanimous in bidding good riddance to bad rubbish.

Quote: FrGamble

If you really felt there was no evidence either for a God or against a God then why take a position at all,

I just said atheism is not a position, it's the lack
of one. Not taking a position is not a position.

An atheist says "I see no evidence for a god,
therefore theism has no meaning for me. I
am an a-theist." I'm neutral on the subject
due to a lack of evidence.

I am not without opinion on religion. I don't
see that it has anything to do with the a
non existent god, and everything to do with
the selfish aspirations of men. Take god out of
a religion and look what you're left with The
truth..

Quote: Evenbob

I just said atheism is not a position, it's the lack
of one. Not taking a position is not a position.

Saying that there is not a God is a position. You can't keep saying that your position is not a position in a vain attempt to not provide any reason or evidence for your position. Why don't you just say why you are an atheist?

Quote:

I'm neutral on the subject
due to a lack of evidence.

This is a more tenable position for you to be in if you truly insist that the existence of matter and things is not evidence of creation and if you insist on ignoring countless miracles and personal experiences of others.

Quote: FrGamble

if you insist on ignoring countless miracles .

The cornball 'miracles' are one of the best
reasons to ignore the entire religion. I've
even read some Bible authorities say the
'miracles' Jesus performed are less than
convincing, and it's 'unfortunate' they
were left in the Bible. Along with the hundreds
of Jewish saints flying out of their graves
and tombs at Jesus resurrection. That
one is a real knee slapper.