Catholic Church Collapsing

Quote: Wizard

You don't.

Then what was this:

Quote:

When you say "god doesn't exist," you open yourself up to challenge to prove the negative. Lack of proof of the positive does not prove the negative.

Quote: Nareed

Then what was this:

I meant what I said. EB said "God doesn't exist" and I asked him to prove it.

Quote: Wizard

I meant what I said. EB said "God doesn't exist" and I asked him to prove it.

How do you prove a negative. There is zero
evidence for the existence of a god, so until
there is evidence we have to assume no such
god exists.

This is what separates us from the thinking of
the past. If they saw no evidence for something,
they made up stories and myths to fill in the
gaps. Science doesn't allow us to do that. We
have to assume something doesn't exist until
we have evidence that it does.

Quote: Wizard

I meant what I said. EB said "God doesn't exist" and I asked him to prove it.

Logic isn't personal. A bad premise is bad regardless of who wields it.

Quote: Nareed

Logic isn't personal. A bad premise is bad regardless of who wields it.

Belief in god means jumping to a whole lot
of conclusions and dismissing the science
necessary to get there. What believers do
now is try and reverse engineer their position.
They believe in god first, then try and bolster
their position with 'proof' of gods existence.

This is the exact opposite of how the scientific
method works. First you gather the evidence,
then you draw conclusions based on the evidence.

Quote: Evenbob

How do you prove a negative. There is zero
evidence for the existence of a god, so until
there is evidence we have to assume no such
god exists.

I agree 100%. We should assume no such god exists. That is different from saying "God doesn't exist." If you claim that, then you must know somehow. I'm just asking how you know.

Quote: Wizard

I agree 100%. We should assume no such god exists. That is different from saying "God doesn't exist." If you claim that, then you must know somehow. I'm just asking how you know.

If there is no evidence, it doesn't exist until
we see the evidence that it does. We can't
assume every fantasy might exist just because
there's no evidence it does.

In the old OLD days, if your cow stopped giving
milk, or your well went dry, or a crop failed, you
skipped the science and went right to unproven
superstition. The devil did it. There was zero proof
the devil even existed, yet people totally believed
he did. If they had the proper attitude that the devil
wasn't real because of lack of evidence, they would
have looked at their problems and figured out the
real reasons they happened.

God does not exist until evidence is found that he does.

Quote: Wizard

That is different from saying "God doesn't exist."

This conversation just went a full 360.

There is no god of any kind. How do I know? because there is no evidence for the existence of one, nor any reason to believe any could even exist.

I think the three of us are in basic agreement and just differing in semantics.

Quote: Wizard

I think the three of us are in basic agreement and just differing in semantics.

There is a world of difference between an atheist and an agnostic. Well beyond semantics.