the death of coal?

October 8th, 2015 at 9:36:00 PM permalink
reno
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 58
Posts: 1384
Starting in September, sewage (yes, poop) from Washington DC, Northern Virginia, and much of Maryland has been pressure cooked to create electricity.

The pricetag for the new system was $470 million. However, it's expected to save the city $10 million annually in eletric costs, plus saves $11 million annually in trucking costs, and $2 million annually in treatment chemicals.

Here's how the new system works:

Quote: Washington Post
Brown, murky water flows through screens that remove debris and then sits to allow solids to settle. Then, enormous centrifuges spin off the water and concentrate the remaining solids. (Don’t think too long about that part.)

The liquid is sent off to be treated and then returned to the Potomac River, and the concentrated sludge is pumped into large steel Cambi reactors, named for the Norwegian manufacturer. The reactors function like pressure cookers, using 338-degree steam and pressure to cook the sludge. Then it gets pumped to another tank at a much lower pressure, which causes the cell walls of the unhealthful pathogens and other microbes to burst.

The sludge is then sent into one of four “digesters” — concrete cylinder tanks as tall as eight-story buildings — that each hold 3.8 million gallons. There, it spends about three weeks as microbial bugs nibble at it. The bugs convert the organic matter into methane gas, which is cleaned and sent to a nearby building, where turbines burn the methane gas and produce electricity. The entire system covers about five acres.


October 8th, 2015 at 10:21:40 PM permalink
rxwine
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 188
Posts: 18629
Makes me think of the smell of a chemical toilet x 1,000,000.
You believe in an invisible god, and dismiss people who say they are trans? Really?
October 8th, 2015 at 10:37:03 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
I had a coal furnace up until 1985 when
the local lumberyard next to the RR tracks
quit selling it. It was a pain, but it was
cheap compared to gas, and it sure
heated the house better.

People who've never had a personal
relationship with coal will never understand
it. The stuff is amazing. It has an almost
oily feel but isn't oily at all. Coal dust is
as flammable as gasoline. Throw a pound
of it off the coal bin floor with a shovel
into a hot furnace and flames will shoot
3' feet out the furnace door. It burns so
hot and for so long, you can 'fix' the
fire at bedtime and the house will still
be warm at 8am. I loved the stuff, but
time marches on.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
October 9th, 2015 at 4:58:27 AM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 135
Posts: 18136
Quote: reno
Starting in September, sewage (yes, poop) from Washington DC, Northern Virginia, and much of Maryland has been pressure cooked to create electricity.


Nothing weird about it at all. I would wager that it was used in more primitive cultures for heat. Complex way to get back to basics, but really we have to learn to use our waste more efficiently. No pun intended.
The President is a fink.
October 9th, 2015 at 7:39:24 AM permalink
reno
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 58
Posts: 1384
Quote: rxwine
Makes me think of the smell of a chemical toilet x 1,000,000.


Yes. All sewage treatment plants smell like shit.
December 18th, 2015 at 11:49:48 AM permalink
petroglyph
Member since: Aug 3, 2014
Threads: 25
Posts: 6227
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-12-18/largest-ever-muni-restructuring-puerto-rico-power-authority-strikes-deal-creditors-i

All of this debt created out of air by bankers and loaned to PR and everywhere else, Cyprus, Greece etc., is crushing the tax bases of these locals and enriching bankers.

So, I see this article and the way the power company works they could have raised rates, but the muni sold them out to collateralize money they needed to make interest payments on the rest of their bonds.

Next I'm thinking, I wonder if they have borrowed a bunch of money for windmills [solar] under the guise of unlimited energy etc. from the sun? And lo and behold, http://cleantechnica.com/2012/08/24/23-mw-wind-farm-launched-in-puerto-rico/. As I expected, wind farms, solar farms, big loans, debt can't be paid, even interest can't be paid. Banks get title to the commons.
The last official act of any government is to loot the treasury. GW
December 21st, 2015 at 8:06:29 AM permalink
petroglyph
Member since: Aug 3, 2014
Threads: 25
Posts: 6227
Quote: petroglyph
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-12-18/largest-ever-muni-restructuring-puerto-rico-power-authority-strikes-deal-creditors-i

All of this debt created out of air by bankers and loaned to PR and everywhere else, Cyprus, Greece etc., is crushing the tax bases of these locals and enriching bankers.

So, I see this article and the way the power company works they could have raised rates, but the muni sold them out to collateralize money they needed to make interest payments on the rest of their bonds.

Next I'm thinking, I wonder if they have borrowed a bunch of money for windmills [solar] under the guise of unlimited energy etc. from the sun? And lo and behold, http://cleantechnica.com/2012/08/24/23-mw-wind-farm-launched-in-puerto-rico/. As I expected, wind farms, solar farms, big loans, debt can't be paid, even interest can't be paid. Banks get title to the commons.


http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-12-21/broke-puerto-rico-pays-out-120-million-christmas-bonuses#comments The gov workers mis manage the country's finances to the point they have to sell the commons at a discount, and then give themselves a year end bonus.

If someone was making this up, you couldn't believe it.
The last official act of any government is to loot the treasury. GW
December 23rd, 2015 at 6:47:52 AM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 1068
Posts: 12569
Quote: reno
Coal consumption is declining.
As recently as 2010, coal accounted for 45 percent of U.S. electricity production. In 2014, coal accounted for 38.7 percent of power production, (compared with 27.4 percent for natural gas.)

Those are the annual numbers, but looking at the monthly numbers, something unprecedent in U.S. history happened in April 2015: more electricity was produced from natural gas than coal. Coal's market share in April was 30.2%, trailing natural gas' market share of 31.5%. Those April numbers were probably just a fluke, so don't take them too seriously.


It doesn't seem to be a total fluke as it happened again in July, August and September.


Coal Gas Diff Month
36.6% 28.2% +8.5% January
37.9% 27.2% +10.7% February
33.4% 30.5% +2.9% March
30.1% 31.6% -1.5% April
32.5% 31.6% +0.9% May
34.8% 33.5% +1.3% June
34.8% 35.1% -0.3% July
34.4% 35.3% -0.9% August
33.8% 35.1% -1.4% Sept


Preliminary numbers are modified with further data, which is why my table says 30.1% and 31.6% for April, but reno's post says 30.2% and 31.5%.
December 23rd, 2015 at 10:36:16 AM permalink
Dalex64
Member since: Mar 8, 2014
Threads: 3
Posts: 3687
Schwarzenegger on energy:

http://www.newsweek.com/arnold-schwarzenegger-doesnt-give-damn-if-you-dont-believe-climate-change-402243

if the newsweek link annoys you (it annoyed me with a big popup) here is a different source:

http://www.knowable.com/a/arnold-schwarzenegger-just-blew-everyone-away-with-this-post-on-fb-wow?ts_pid=800&utm_content=inf_10_3136_2&tse_id=INF_a72984b49b0b4cf08125bb90ce37dd30

I think he originally posted that on his facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/notes/arnold-schwarzenegger/i-dont-give-a-if-we-agree-about-climate-change/10153855713574658

Each page has their own active comment section, of course.

My personal take on this is:

coal and oil won't last forever.

it is easier to control the pollution in fewer places (power plants) and/or concentrate the pollution at power plants rather than having many smaller sources of pollution everywhere.

My personal preference is solar power applications - either the heating of water or some other fluid to run turbines, or the direct conversion into electricity by solar panels. They don't have the chopping-up of the birds and bats problems or the noise problems that those giant wind turbines have. It doesn't have the same carbon-releasing pollution problem of burning the "renewable" sources such as wood or switchgrass. If they are solar focusers, though, the critters best stay out of the way.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." Daniel Patrick Moynihan
December 23rd, 2015 at 10:42:29 AM permalink
Dalex64
Member since: Mar 8, 2014
Threads: 3
Posts: 3687
As an aside, I also like the combined cycle (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined_cycle) Internal Combustion / Steam power generators. I first saw one at the Henry Ford Museum. Apparently there are a few of them in use out there.

The basic idea is the exhaust heat from the internal combustion engine is used to create steam to drive a steam turbine.

Both the internal combustion engine and the steam turbine are driving electric generators.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." Daniel Patrick Moynihan