Science and God

Quote: FrGamble

The problem is that not everyone who unexpectedly gets better is a miracle. I think you read the article about how much goes into determining if this is a true miracle.

Just because you or your interpretation
says it's a miracle is meaningless, don't
you see that? You don't have a shred
of proof that miracles exist, I feel ridiculous
even discussing this nonsense. You're
so obviously bright and you waste so
much time on archaic superstitious
baloney. C'mon man, get a hold of
the truth, move away from the trap
you've set for yourself.

Quote: FrGamble

3 persons who make up one God. Think of the union of a husband and a wife who become one family.

Ah, that finally makes sense: "God" is the name these three deities give to their triumvirate.

I suppose in the era of cruel Tiberius, who was then fortuitously followed by mad Caligula and bloodthirsty Nero, the idea of a "divine" triumvirate would appeal to the Romans, seeing as how the first and last successful emperor to that point had emerged from one.

Quote:

I think you read the article about how much goes into determining if this is a true miracle.

I read what now?

Quote: Evenbob

Just because you or your interpretation
says it's a miracle is meaningless, don't
you see that?

Just because you or your interpretation says it's not a miracle is meaningless, don't you see that?

Quote:

You don't have a shred
of proof that miracles exist, I feel ridiculous
even discussing this nonsense.

Believe me I feel ridiculous talking with you about it too because you continue to say I don't have a shred of evidence when I think you mean yourself. My evidence is that a very sick person who was treated through medicine and science did not get better and then when she and those whom she loved prayed for the intercession of a saint she did get miraculously better. I'm not talking about relief, but rather all symptoms and causes gone. This is all scientifically documented and verified as that article I linked to written by an atheist doctor makes clear. I do have evidence, you my friend continue to have nothing, ridiculous!

Quote: FrGamble

Here is a great article from the New York Times:

Miracles Medical and Religious

Here is the article again if you didn't read it the first time.

Quote: FrGamble

My evidence is that a very sick person who was treated through medicine and science did not get better and then when she and those whom she loved prayed for the intercession of a saint she did get miraculously better.

I'm afraid that picking an outlier* from
the pack doesn't count as evidence of
anything except wishful thinking. But you
know all this, I don't have to explain it to
you.

*"In statistics, an outlier is an observation point that is distant from other observations"

Quote: FrGamble

Here is the article again if you didn't read it the first time.

You thought I was replying to that?

I never read articles like that. Just as I don't make any effort to get caught up in alchemy or numerology.

Quote: Nareed

Just as I don't make any effort to get caught up in alchemy or numerology.

Or astrology. The article he posted is
humorous at best. It's what they left
out that yells at you from the page.
You can prove anything if you only
present one side of it.

Quote: Evenbob

I'm afraid that picking an outlier* from
the pack doesn't count as evidence

I don't think that something that happens as often as miracle claims is an outlier. It is amazing the lengths you and Nareed will go to remain ignorant of the truth. You will avoid reading anything that challenges you and you will continue to believe in things that have no evidence or reason to support them. Here I was thinking you were at least going to intelligently participate in a forum, what a waste.

Quote: FrGamble

It is amazing the lengths you and Nareed will go to remain ignorant of the truth.

How about this? I have an abscess the dermatologist just drained and prescribed medication for. Here's what I propose: instead of taking the antibiotics he prescribed(*), I'll simply ignore them. You pray to your favorite god for a cure, and for a certificate of divine cure (surely that's not beyond their powers?) A week from now we'll see how I'm doing.

I won't hold my breath waiting for an answer. Though taking care of a minor bacterial infection even the ancients could treat (though not with a great success rate) should be a lot easier than curing any kind of cancer.

Quote:

You will avoid reading anything that challenges you

I avoid reading things that waste my time. Look, if you had documented proof of someone surviving something that is 100%, sure-fire lethal every time, I'd listen. as it is, the deadliest plagues and diseases are routinely survived by some of those afflicted even without treatment.

Surely you've heard of "alternative medicine" (it's not medicine). Plenty of people claim cures from it. In most cases, the illness was something subjective (ie back pain), or something everyone has a fair chance of healing from on their own (ie an infection). But now and then someone diagnosed with cancer gets better from nonsense like this, either in addition or instead of actual medical treatment.

Should I spend any of my time reading their "proofs"?

So unless you can get proof of someone being dipped in, say, molten steel for several minutes and surviving due to prayer, I won't even consider a deity was responsible for any improvement.

(*) I won't forego this course of antibiotics. I take these wonderful medications very seriously, as their misuse is a cause of antibiotic-resistant bacteria. So if the prescription says "1 pill every 8 hours for seven days," then that's what I'll take and I won't miss one.

Quote: Nareed

(*) I won't forego this course of antibiotics. I take these wonderful medications very seriously, as their misuse is a cause of antibiotic-resistant bacteria. So if the prescription says "1 pill every 8 hours for seven days," then that's what I'll take and I won't miss one.

Good, you shouldn't miss antibiotics and should take it seriously. Here is a better idea if you take the antibiotics and it doesn't work then I will pray for the intercession of Saint Jude, the patron saint of lost causes.