Myth vs Fact

I like to engage in an intellectual exercise I call "cite examples to the contrary." Basically I formulate a premise with several good examples in support of it, then I try to come up with examples to oppose it. This keeps me from running away with what seems like a good idea, but may be deeply flawed with details big or small.

Here's one premise: Myths have more staying power and a deeper effect in the culture and language than real historical events.

Here's one example: We know the Trojan Horse is a myth (think about hiding a squad of armed soldiers for hours inside it, each man so perfectly quiet no Trojan ever thinks to look inside). The phrase "Trojan horse" not only survives, but even gets adapted to newer developments. It means a kind deception, where something harmless contains within itself something deadly. This perfectly describes computer viruses, malware or adware contained in other software.

Not bad for a phrase 3,000 years old.

But more than that, the phrase has kept its original meaning unaltered all that time.

Surely other phrases from ancient times originating in historical fact so persist to this day. Consider "The die is cast." This means you cannot back down from an action, or will not back down, and are awaiting the outcome. When you throw a die, you can't stop it. Then you wait to see what number comes up. This is what Caesar meant when he said it, but can you recall why, when and in which context?

Like that.

Crossing the Rubicon, which meant he was a rebel against Republic of Rome, rather than just a leader of an army.

The Rubicon is a river near Rome, as I recall. It of course has come to mean breaking a set of long established rules, and passing a point of no return.

I'm having a hard time coming up with old words or phrases still in use. Here are some:

Don't go off half-cocked
Beyond the pale
Odyssey
Prodigal son


I still think myth has more impact than fact, but using the popularity or persistence of expressions thereof is not a good way to illustrate the point.

So now I try some other way. How about this: if fact had a bigger impact, there'd be no need for "spin," exaggeration, embellishment or outright mythification of actual, documented events.

I dunno, it's all Greek to me.

Quote: TheCesspit

I dunno, it's all Greek to me.

I think that's from Shakespeare....

I've heard the expression "scapegoat" comes from when the Israelites used to sacrifice animals, often goats, as an atonement for their sins. Today a scapegoat is somebody who takes the blame for something somebody else did -- pretty much the same as the goat.

Quote: Nareed

I think that's from Shakespeare....

There is an old Latin phrase "Graecum est; non legitur" ("it is Greek, [therefore] it cannot be read") which may have been the source.

Shakespeare is the oldest source in English, but most scholars think he was putting a funny twist on the expression those that understood him smiled at one another and shook their heads; but, for mine own part, it was Greek to me

TheCesspit actually used a later variation of the phrase, it's all Greek to me. implying that everything you are writing is not comprehensible to him.

Another Latin phrase is Pecunia non olet ("money does not stink") ascribed to the Roman emperor Vespasian (ruled 69-79 AD).It doesn't matter how much of a gangster you have to be to acquire money, once acquired it no longer stinks.

Quote: Wizard

I've heard the expression "scapegoat" comes from when the Israelites used to sacrifice animals, often goats, as an atonement for their sins. Today a scapegoat is somebody who takes the blame for something somebody else did -- pretty much the same as the goat.

The prefix "scape" is related to the word "escape" as the goat was driven into the wilderness to carry away the sins of the Israelites. It was used in some of the earliest translation of the bible. The modern sense dates back to early 19th century.

It's not so much someone who voluntary "takes the blame", but someone who is "blamed" for all the problems, and bears the sins for everyone else as he is symbolically forced into the wilderness

Hold your horses and drop a dime on
somebody will be unknown pretty
soon. We still say hold your horses,
though, and they have been gone
for almost a hundred years as the
major mode of transportation.

'A month of Sundays' has no real meaning
now. When I was a kid, nothing but
nothing was open on Sunday and it was
a very long day.

Quote: Pacomartin

Another Latin phrase is Pecunia non olet ("money does not stink") ascribed to the Roman emperor Vespasian (ruled 69-79 AD).It doesn't matter how much of a gangster you have to be to acquire money, once acquired it no longer stinks.

I know this one.

Urine was used as raw material for something, I forget what. And Rome actually had a rather sophisticated sewer system, for the time. Vespasian instituted a tax on urine on public toilets. This was not a popular tax. When his son and eventual successor, Titus, raised some issues about it, Vespasian held up a gold coin to his nose and said what you quoted.

BTW, Rome's famous Colosseum is actually called the Flavian Amphitheatre. Vespasian (whose full name is Titus Flavius Caesar Vespasianus Augustus) began its construction. His son finished it and inaugurated it, which probably was the high point of his very short reign.