Attending religious rituals

Quote: petroglyph

Maybe that is what love is, still wanting to include you knowing full well that you find their beliefs distasteful? At least they cared enough about you to invite you.

I think it's more a sense of obligation. If it were love, they wouldn't even ask me to come.

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Turn it around on them at another time and invite them to something they object to, and if they refuse to attend you can always refer to that event.

There's nothing like that in the world. I can't think of something they not only don't like but which has also hurt them.

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And then there is always maybe, they really don't want you to come but you are invited just so you will send money?

Oh, not at all. I'd be fine with that. Just send a gift, right? No. In fact we have an arrangement of not giving each other gifts.

Quote: DRich

Wait, are we talking about casinos?

No. There is a good reason for casinos.

Quote: Nareed

I have an outdated ritual for a nephew tomorrow.

I don't mind attending such religious rituals if I am there only as a spectator. But my sister in law keeps trying to include me in it. I honestly don't care if this is important to them or not, I do not take part in religious rituals of any kind. I don't try to convince them not to marry in a temple, do I? Or even not to do minor genital mutilation on their sons, even though I'm strongly opposed to it. So why can't they respect my desire to be left out of their religion?

I even attended a wedding at a Catholic church once, decades ago. But then no one tried to make me a part of the ritual.

I've read thru this several times, and the key words keep popping up: Outdated ritual, nephew, include me.

The math keeps coming up to the same conclusion: They are asking you to be a participant in a Briss (Jewish circumcision ceremony), perhaps even to hold the child during the actual cutting.

If that's it, then I'm on your side.

I can't think of any other ritual that anyone would find so objectionable to participating in.



So what's the story? You wrote that yesterday. What was the ritual, what were you being asked to do, and what did you end up doing?

Quote: Nareed

I think it's more a sense of obligation. If it were love, they wouldn't even ask me to come.

As we've mentioned love sometimes requires of us to do things we normally wouldn't like to do.

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There's nothing like that in the world. I can't think of something they not only don't like but which has also hurt them.

Why don't you ask them if religion hurts them so much or if they don't like it? I think you may find that they find value an happiness from it.

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Oh, not at all. I'd be fine with that. Just send a gift, right? No. In fact we have an arrangement of not giving each other gifts.

Looks like you've painted yourself in a corner again. If you can be cordial and kind, which I know you can, maybe you should go and make the best of it.

Quote: FrGamble

As we've mentioned love sometimes requires of us to do things we normally wouldn't like to do.

And from your viewpoint I should make sacrifices, too. Well, I don't. I have integrity, and it cannot be sold, traded, given away or sacrificed. I can attend the ritual. I can congratulate my nephew and his parents. But I won't offer a prayer to a non-existent god for any reason, at any time.

Maybe you can relate to this. Suppose I invited you to my wedding (I wish!) and I asked you to say the following prayer "God, please stay far away from us."

Would you say it, out loud, out of love for a friend? Would a friend who loves you ask this of you?

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Why don't you ask them if religion hurts them so much or if they don't like it? I think you may find that they find value an happiness from it.

Believe it or not, I know my own family. My brother is as atheist as I am, just less militant. But he goes through the motions of religion because of family pressures (that's a long story and is not mine to tell).

Well said and I agree with your points. Have as good a time as you can and I'm sure we all await your report.

Quote: FrGamble

Well said and I agree with your points.

I think this may be a first ;)

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Have as good a time as you can and I'm sure we all await your report.

It was yesterday.

There was a little box with two pieces of chocolate at every guest's place on the tables. Two places at my table were empty. I thought, after breakfast were done, I'd ask if anyone wanted them. If no one else did, I'd take them to give to my coworkers at the office. Alas, the Rabbi just took them without asking.

The best thing of having the event on a workday, is that one can leave right after breakfast and no one minds. So I didn't have to endure two hours of aural torture before it was "ok" for me to leave. The coffee was decent.

The worst thing of having the event on a workday, is that they want to keep the party going until the weekend. So today there is another outdated ritual in the evening, but fortunately I'll be stuck at work. Then there's a big meal at my mom's tomorrow.

Wow! That actually reads a lot better than it felt.

Quote: Nareed

Wow! That actually reads a lot better than it felt.

I have a Jewish friend who got divorced
20 years ago when he was in his 50's.
He tried going to a Christian church for
awhile, just to meet women I think. He
found it confusing, not like his own
religion. I don't remember the details,
but he was uncomfortable with all the
music and singing. They don't do that
in his Jewish church. And it goes on and
on, he said it feels like a party and nobody
is very serious.

The few times I've been to my wife's church
in the last few years, it's more like a rock
concert. They have a huge stage, a hundred
spotlights overhead, thousands of dollars
in sound equipment. Every Sunday they put
on a show, and people clap and sing along
and everybody has a rolicking time.

I always tell my wife Jesus would be appalled
if he was really alive.

Quote: Face

I've found it is much easier on all to do what you're doing. Suck up the fact that you hate being in church for the benefit of those you love, politely but steadfastly refuse the thing which you cannot tolerate, and do it all with decorum. No amount of arguing is going to change their mind, none is going to change yours. Agree to disagree, and let's have some of that cake.

Sometimes its just the depressing and contradictory rituals that I find annoying. At any Celebration of Life in the yachting community, the central table is "reserved for the crew" but the reason the Celebration of Life is being held is that its obvious the boat went down and the crew died at sea. Its really a funeral at which the word death is not mentioned.