Catholic sacrament of the week.

Quote: AZDuffman

should reduce their stress, relax their mind, and let their body heal.

Sounds good on paper, in actuality many people
relax when they hear they're on prayer lists and such,
and stop being proactive in their own healing process.
They think god will take care of it and that can't happen,
god only exists in their minds.

Quote: Evenbob

Sounds good on paper, in actuality many people
relax when they hear they're on prayer lists and such,
and stop being proactive in their own healing process.
They think god will take care of it and that can't happen,
god only exists in their minds.

Whether you believe or not is not what is important. It is what **they** believe. The mind relaxing is important. I can't count how many times I had something to do for work or other and was sick, feeling terrible. The things that needed done weighed on my mind. When someone said, "relax, I'll get it covered" I did relax, often feeling better to the point that I feel I could have done it. Of course, I was still sick, but my mind was now allowing the healing process to progress.

If I was in some sort of a bad time and the Padre or anyone of faith says, "I'll say a prayer for you" then part of me is going to think, "whatever." But part will think, "at the least it can't hurt." Another part will think, "hey, that's nice. Maybe it will really help." And not to steal the Padre's thunder, but I believe the important thing if you believe in prayer is to pray for the right thing. "Get me better" is not right, "get me through this" is better.

I still think the biggest contradiction (if that is the right word) in prayer is Solomon. God offers the guy whatever he wanted. He says to give him wisdom. But didn't he have to be wise enough to ask for that in the first place?

Quote: AZDuffman

1. Does the person need to be conscious and aware to receive the AotS? I was always under the impression "Last Rites" was given when you were so bad that you could go at any moment, and in such a case you were probably at the most dimly aware of what was going on.

No the person does not need to be conscious or responsive at all to receive the AotS. There have been times when I arrived right after the moment the time of death was called and you can still anoint even then. However, you cannot anoint a body that is already dead or obviously so, such as at a morgue or in a funeral home. The reasoning behind this is that the sick person can still spiritually benefit from the Anointing even if their body is unresponsive. It is also a further sign that God's love is not conditioned on our response, but only on His love for us. There are all kinds of studies that show the last of our senses to go is hearing. For me the very last thing to go is our spiritual sense. I believe that someone feels in their soul when the people they love are in the room.

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2. Is there, even if it is general, some sort of "standard" as to when it may be given? Surely you do not give it for a common cold, but what about if a person is diagnosed with early cancer and is outwardly looking healthy? I will say I expect a big "it depends" in your answer, but you always work well with that so please enlighten.

I like the way the instruction on the AotS is written, it says something like, "when someone is experiencing any type of distress mental, emotional, or physical then the moment for the Anointing has surely arrived." This means that you can be very liberal in your decision to Anoint. This is why I'm always trying to help people see that it is not really "Last Rites". You can receive an anointing as many times as you need to. You wouldn't do it for the common cold, but it could be appropriate if you were suffering from crippling anxiety after losing a job, or had a type of mental illness. Specifically, when someone receives a cancer diagnosis, no matter how healthy they are at that moment it is definitely time to anoint.

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3. Can the sick person make the request? If it is in the form of "Last Rites" the person may not be able to. But many people know the end is near and say, "Get a Priest!" Can they "ask?" Or does the Priest have to make the call so to speak?

Yes the sick person can make the request and when they do so it is common practice to give them the benefit of the doubt in regards to their need. However, it can be very frustrating to get an emergency call to the hospital at 4 in the morning for a patient who is healthy as a horse and in no immediate danger of death.

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4. Is part of this Sacrament a sort of "Confession by Proxy?" I don't mean that to sound weird, but say a guy is in an accident and his family/Army Buddy/whatever calls you. One of their concerns may well be, "I don't want him to go to the other side with sin on his Soul." Assuming he is in no shape for a Confession, will the AotS forgive him of his sins in the same way?

The AotS carries with it the forgiveness of sins, which is why it is reserved to a priest. In fact there is a very special prayer called the Apostolic Pardon which is given at the time of death that is like a confession for those who can no longer go to confession. Of course, if in the soul of the person they are unrepentant than no prayer will be effective. This Apostolic Pardon by the way is what a priest would pray if the plane he was on is going down. Great for the passengers but I always wondered about the poor priest, anyway the ideal is to go to confession connected to the sacrament of anointing, but if that is not possible, and it rarely is, God takes care of it.

Quote: Evenbob

It comes from James:

Quote: James 5:14-15

Is there anyone sick among you? He should call the presbyters of the Church and have them pray over them, anointing them with oil in the name of the Lord and the prayer of faith will save the sick person and the Lord will raise him up. If he has committed any sins, his sins will be forgiven him.

How often does that actually work, that
the person gets well. ... What's
the point, then.

The point is really the peace and comfort of the sick person and their loved ones. Often at this point the ultimate healing will take place with death and their entrance into the Kingdom of God. The really healing is spiritual. Not only through the forgiveness of sins, but in the trust of God that everything is going to be okay.

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"The sacrament is administered by a priest, who uses olive oil or another pure plant oil to anoint the patient's forehead and perhaps other parts of the body while reciting certain prayers."

This is not unlike certain Wiccan/pagan rituals,
which I'm sure is where the Church got it from.

Actually this anointing comes from the world of sports. When Olympic athletes were sore or tired they were rubbed down with oil to rejuvenate them. The Church stole this idea and thought that when people are worn down or tired in their bodies and souls that God would rejuvenate and strengthen them with this special anointing with oil.

Thanks, Padre. Clear and concise as always.

Quote: FrGamble

The point is really the peace and comfort of the sick person and their loved ones.

So like every ritual in the Church, it's based
on psychology. Crossing yourself, taking
communion, celebrating Easter. These are
ways of connecting to the Jesus myth, they
have connection to reality. Much like Wiccans
and their full moon ritual, or the celebrations
at the equinoxes.

Quote: FrGamble

Anyone interested in talking about the Sacrament of the Anointing of the Sick? It used to be called the Last Rites, but it no longer carries that connotation.

I won't even criticize this one.

But again I have a question: how do I opt out of it? Do I even have to?

There was a scene in the Titantic movie where a priest, I assume, was saying a prayer as the ship was going down. What would have been the appropriate thing to do in that situation? Keep in mind the people praying with him were not sick but likely had less than an hour to live.

When my father was in the hospital two days before he died, and it was obvious his time was very short, the nurse asked if we wanted anybody from the clergy to visit his room. No particular question there but I think it is a good thing there are volunteer clergy members around to comfort people in their last hours.

I would like to report that by chance after our discussion on communion I visited with my uncle and aunt. My aunt is an all the way Catholic. Crucifixes and all kinds of other Catholic stuff all over their walls.

She mentioned that she doesn't like to take the "cup" because she might catch germs from others who drank from it before her. Given how immaculately clean her house is, this position doesn't surprise me. I said something like, "Fortunately you can get both the body and blood from both the bread and the wine."

Then she corrected me saying that you got both from the bread but only the blood from the cup. So I made a friendly gentlemen's bet with her. She is such a strong Catholic (present company exempted) that I'm sure she doesn't wager real money.

So, yesterday I saw her for the first time since that discussion. One of the first things she did was to say she looked it up and I was indeed correct. Thanks, Padre, I love watching others eat humble pie.

Quote: Wizard

I would like to report that by chance after our discussion on communion I visited with my uncle and aunt. .

As I've said here many times, the people
in the religion itself are usually the worst
people to ask about it. The religion itself
is of little interest to many of them. In
fact, I, as a non Christian, generally know
more they they do about it. For instance,
they are surprised to learn the Romans
crucified over 100,000 people. Many
Christians think Jesus and the thieves were
a special event. The padre will jump in
and say 'they are just ignorant, then'. Yes,
that's my point.