"Cult of Mary"

Quote: Evenbob

Even the word 'virgin' is a mistranslation. It
really translates to 'young girl' but virgin
has the supernatural link, so it was left that.
All the new accurately translated Bible's
have it as young girl. So much for the 'evidence'.

Bob it is not just the word that shows us the fact of Mary's virginity it is the testimony of Mary herself who says, "How can this be since I have no relations with a man?" This and the universal agreement of all Christians of every denomination and from the very beginning is pretty strong evidence.

But if you insist let's look at the word. You know that almah in Hebrew means "young girl", you probably also know according to your concordance that there is no instance of the use of this word in a case when the "young girl" was not fairly obviously a virgin. So much so that the Septuagint, which is the Greek translation of the Old Testament written at least a couple of centuries before Christ uses the Greek word parthenos, which literally means "virgin". Therefore if there is a new Bible translation that uses "young girl" they are not taking into consideration the Septuagint, the fuller meaning of almah, and the constant unbroken tradition of all Christians. So much for your more accurate translation. Is this why you like Tyndale so much? You can make all kind of mistakes with the translation of the Bible based on your own personal preferences and pass them off as correct.

By the way I find it quite amusing that you obviously did not read the article you posted earlier. As I mentioned it is excellent and you can learn a lot from it. I think you chose it because of the headline, which the article makes clear is completely tongue in cheek and sarcastic.

Quote: Nareed

I've only a dim idea what Arianism is, aside the fact someone named Arius had something to do with it (I think).

My point is that Jesus, like every other human being before him and every other human being after him, was of a single nature: human.

Yep, a priest named Arius basically claimed that Jesus was pretty awesome but He was not God.

Quote: FrGamble

Yep, a priest named Arius basically claimed that Jesus was pretty awesome but He was not God.

More 50% agreement.

Quote: FrGamble

it is not just the word that shows us the fact .

What's funny is, the virgin story is so important
to the deification of Jesus, that the Church will
go out of it's way to 'prove' she was. It's without
a doubt the silliest, most preposterous, most
ludicrous, and most hilarious thing in the NT.

I was listening to a talk about the supernatural
aspect of Jesus. He starts out by saying, 'Jesus,
son of a virgin.' and then pauses. There's a
little titter of giggles in the crowd, then scattered
laughter, then outright laughter. And most of
these people were Christians. He then goes on
to explain this is the pivotal point in Christianity,
without it the deity of Jesus falls apart.

So as silly and ridiculous in modern times as it
is, the Church will defend it to it's death. We
know Mary is a virgin because she says so?
Wow, did she say it more than once, that would
make it twice as true. In the days when there was
total ignorance about how conception took place,
it wasn't all that far fetched. In today's world it's
right up there with Thor's hammer and the flying
horse Pegasus. Myth's and fairytales to entertain
the ignorant.

Bob, if you think about it for a minute nothing makes more sense than the virgin birth. It is God's modus operandi if you will.

We have talked already on this forum about how the evidence in modern cosmology points us clearly to the idea that the universe had an ultimate beginning. This creation from nothing is a virgin birth. Really space, time, matter all of it was created out of nothing. Only God can do this. Therefore it makes sense that God would enter into our world in the same way He created it.

Quote: FrGamble

Bob, if you think about it for a minute nothing makes more sense than the virgin birth. It is God's modus operandi if you will.

Of course. That's why virgins give birth every year, nay every day!

But it actually makes sense, culturally. Or rather it did in the late era BCE. That was when people believed Athena sprang forth fully grown and fully armed from the head of Zeus. Judaism lacked such divine characters and stories, though otherwise it was very much like most religions of the time. So why not adapt one of the goyische(*) myths?

It makes even more sense in a Roman culture more influenced by Greece than Rome itself. Judea had experienced a Greek-descended occupation (by the Seleucids). Rome transcribed the Greek pantheon whole, pretty much. Why should the people of Judea fall behind? Of course in a monotheistic sort of way.


(*) Yes, you're right. using Yiddishisms in this context is anachronistic.

Quote: Nareed

Of course. That's why virgins give birth every year, nay every day!

Things truly awesome don't take place that often. The last virgin birth before Jesus was roughly 13.8 billion years ago.

Anyone who takes creation seriously knows that at some point something had to begin it all from nothing. The ancients, way before even Rome or Greece knew this. That is why virginity has held such a supernatural place in myths and ancient religions. A fruitful virginity is the beginning of all things and the idea of it is scientific. This fantastical stories you mention prepare us for the reality of the virgin birth of Jesus Christ.

Quote: FrGamble

Things truly awesome don't take place that often. The last virgin birth before Jesus was roughly 13.8 billion years ago.

Oh, no. much more often than that. There is a species of lizard made up entirely of females. They all give virgin birth. Lately research has found other types of reptiles can, under some circumstances, also conceive without the aid of a male. Given the size of the world's reptile population, it may have happened at the same time as Jesus.

Alas, no mammal has been found that can produce a fetus without male help.

Quote:

This fantastical stories you mention prepare us for the reality of the virgin birth of Jesus Christ.

Didn't the early church claim the pagan gods were demons?

Quote: Nareed

Oh, no. much more often than that. There is a species of lizard made up entirely of females. They all give virgin birth. Lately research has found other types of reptiles can, under some circumstances, also conceive without the aid of a male. Given the size of the world's reptile population, it may have happened at the same time as Jesus.

Alas, no mammal has been found that can produce a fetus without male help.

Alas indeed because that would be more akin to the type of creation ex nihilo we are talking about than your lizard example.

Quote:

Didn't the early church claim the pagan gods were demons?

Not necessarily, thinking people don't often paint with the large brush you are used to using in regards to faith, religion, and God.

Quote: FrGamble

This creation from nothing is a virgin birth. .

Save it for the choir, padre. You can make
anything seem possible with enough circular
logic and reverse engineering. Pretty soon
you have yourself talked into just about
anything under the sun, happens every
day. Ask any shrink..