Bill Cosby, What the Frick?

Because it's taking this long, I'm still thinking there's a holdout and they are deadlocked.

Quote: rxwine

Because it's taking this long, I'm still thinking there's a holdout and they are deadlocked.

I think you are right, but maybe they just like the free food from the courthouse cafeteria.

Jury declared itself deadlocked but Judge ordered continued deliberations

Quote: Fleastiff

I think you are right, but maybe they just like the free food from the courthouse cafeteria.

And jury pay!

Quote: Fleastiff

Jury declared itself deadlocked but Judge ordered continued deliberations

I never could understand this. If i was a juror, i would hear and see the evidence presented, then I would decide on my vote. Once I had decided, I could not imagine another juror convincing me to change my mind.

To me, although I think there are some legitimate reasons some women didn't come forward, in any case, the delay has hurt their side of it.

Quote: SOOPOO

I never could understand this. If i was a juror, i would hear and see the evidence presented, then I would decide on my vote. Once I had decided, I could not imagine another juror convincing me to change my mind.

Which is why a lawyer would not want you on a jury. The task is to assess and evaluate the evidence as a jury of twelve, not simply a tally of twelve opinions but a tally of twelve opinions that have been analyzed. Did you consider a certain witness to be believable? Why? Was the testimony in conflict with other witnesses.

This is why everything said to the bailiff is a command, it is never phrased as a request, and always begins with "We the Jury command the bailiff (blank) and never one of the jurors would like some drinking water or the air conditioning raised or whatever.

It is a body of twelve good men and true to determine the facts according to the evidence presented and their common knowledge but held to a higher standard of proof than would apply in their daily life, even in matters of great import. There is a difference between Guilt in a religious or moral sense and guilt in a legal sense. Beyond a reasonable doubt is a very high standard of proof.

To this day a Scottish jury is permitted to say 'Guilt Not Proven' which means basically that 'we as twelve individuals think this defendant is guilty as hell according to the standards of ordinary activities but that according to the standard of beyond a reasonable doubt, we feel the prosecutor failed to establlish that degree of proof'. The defendant walks out free but will not be viewed in the community as innocent.

In our system, its Guilty or Not Guilty, but Not Guilty does not mean 'he didn't do it'.

Quote: rxwine

To me, although I think there are some legitimate reasons some women didn't come forward, in any case, the delay has hurt their side of it.

Yes. Delay is unwise in such matters as it omiting certain unpleasant facts right away.

A woman who has been raped and states the time she last had sex with her husband but only later admits to the police that she also had consensual sex with her boyfriend, does not fare as well as a woman who promptly tells the police the entire truth.

A woman who tells her coworkers she was in a minor car accident but promptly tells her doctor her husband beat her will be believed more than a woman who only months later alleges she was beaten.

In this case the complainant told the police she had dinner at a public restaurant and did not immediately reveal she had dinner at his home served by his private chef. This fact only emerged later... the jury is entitled to conclude that she will omit major facts about other things to suit her purposes. This does not mean that she lied about the rape it only shows she may have lied about the rape to suit what she considered to be a higher purpose.

Jurors often follow the Ghomeshi judge's opinion: It is very simple, it does not take any learning curve: its the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth right from the start. No ommisions, no lies. If you were coming from church, say so. If you were coming from a whorehouse, say so, but don't lie about what is simply a collateral matter.

Quote: rxwine

And jury pay!

Jury pay is similar to reapportionment... its supposed to be done frequently but it never really gets done.

By the way, a Judge can keep sending the jury back to deliberate anew with instructions to review their opinions and listen intently to the opinions of others but after awhile it will become obvious to even a determined judge that it simply is deadlocked. A compromose verdict is to be avoided however, but many verdicts are indeed compromise verdicts.

Having heard the evidence and Cosby's own evidence, this is a pretty landmark case.

Can you invite someone over, give them OTC pills, sexually assault them, and get away with it? Benadryl, if that's what was given, is essentially a low-powered sleeping pill (also used for allergies),, and it take 100mg (4 of them, 2 extra strength) to put me to sleep (I don't take them anymore - I have access to something far better than that). To say that "she felt frozen" seemed to be a bit over the top and likely what happened was that Cosby surprised the hell out her by making a move and didn't know what to do about it.

Is that still sexual assault? In today's world, hell ya. In 2004? Who knows?