Wealth redistribution

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June 29th, 2014 at 2:22:12 PM permalink
TheCesspit
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 23
Posts: 1929
Quote: RonC
Every time you say "47%" you are defeating your own purpose.

Every time you figure out how to get someone to open a plant, you are helping your purpose move forward.

Not all in the 47% are Democrats nor are they totally "takers"--if Republicans give them an avenue out, they'll move to our side. It won't take a swing of 47% to change things, 5%-10% is enough...

Democrats like victims.

Republicans using the 47% percent are acting like them and demonizing people.


I've been telling AZ that for ages, but as I am a 'liberal' he won't listen to me.

Quote:
Neither is good.


Exactly.
It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die.... it's called Life
June 29th, 2014 at 4:42:49 PM permalink
boymimbo
Member since: Mar 25, 2013
Threads: 5
Posts: 732
I am identified as a liberal too but....

I am against abortion as a pro-choice decision.
I am against gay marriage in churches (but all for civil unions by governments).
I also pay alot into the taxation system, and my anger is around the money that is wasted on dumb programs. AZ thinks all government programs are dumb and should be privatized, and he knows I think differently, and he will argue that I'm stupid for doing so.
June 30th, 2014 at 2:46:19 AM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 135
Posts: 18136
Quote: boymimbo
I am identified as a liberal too but....

I am against abortion as a pro-choice decision.
I am against gay marriage in churches (but all for civil unions by governments).
I also pay alot into the taxation system, and my anger is around the money that is wasted on dumb programs. AZ thinks all government programs are dumb and should be privatized, and he knows I think differently, and he will argue that I'm stupid for doing so.


Never said all, most are though. The Space Program was well worth the price, but Obama care not so much. Head Start should be axed with the rest of the Dept of Education.

What I would really like is a Sunset Law on government programs. Every 5 years the program heads must come before Congress to get reauthorized, if they can't pass it again and the POTUS sign again then the program is dead, then and there. The government employees int he words of the late, great Emperor get to "get on with their life's work."
The President is a fink.
June 30th, 2014 at 3:56:05 AM permalink
chickenman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 0
Posts: 368
Quote: AZDuffman
axed with the rest of the Dept of Education.


Second.

All in Favor?

The ayes have it!
He's everywhere, he's everywhere...!
June 30th, 2014 at 6:13:09 AM permalink
Face
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 61
Posts: 3941
Quote: AZDuffman
The government employees int he words of the late, great Emperor get to "get on with their life's work."


You (we) need to expand on that. They shouldn't "get on with their life's work" just because their position is eliminated. Every politician should get on with their life's work because politics should not be a %$^#& career!

Every single thing about today's political scene makes me mad enough to spit. Yes, AZD, your "Sunset Clause" isn't only a good idea, I think it is crucial to the survival of the US. Freedom is a finite resource. You can only do anything, anywhere, at any time. That's it. It is limited to a specific area (US, or the Earth) and a specific time frame (your life). Every law chips that away. And that's fine; every society needs laws for order and safety. But without a purging, the only end point is loss of all freedom. It is inevitable, it is the only logical end. Keep taking from a finite resource and eventually it will be gone. Not only that, but this Sunset Clause would have a wonderful side effect. After all, if time must be spent reviewing old laws, there's less time to meddle in other affairs. Inefficient? You bet.

"The only thing that saves us from the bureaucracy is inefficiency. An efficient bureaucracy is the greatest threat to liberty." - Eugene McCarthy
Be bold and risk defeat, or be cautious and encourage it.
June 30th, 2014 at 7:07:46 AM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 135
Posts: 18136
Quote: Face
You (we) need to expand on that. They shouldn't "get on with their life's work" just because their position is eliminated. Every politician should get on with their life's work because politics should not be a %$^#& career!


"Get on with your life's work" is a saying by the late Chuck Noll, known locally as "The Emperor." Back when players were not set for life after even a good career they had to get straight jobs after. When their football skills fell off enough that they could not make the team, Noll would say "they need to get on with their life's work." Same for government. We close a dept and some people need to find new jobs. BOO HOO HOO. Lots of people need to find new jobs and careers. Ask the dealers at Showboat, Atlantic City. One was such a good waiter our VP said so in front of 500 or more people.

Quote:
But without a purging, the only end point is loss of all freedom. It is inevitable, it is the only logical end. Keep taking from a finite resource and eventually it will be gone. Not only that, but this Sunset Clause would have a wonderful side effect. After all, if time must be spent reviewing old laws, there's less time to meddle in other affairs. Inefficient? You bet.


The thing is that politicians love to pass laws and set up agencies but they never, ever look at what is or is not working. If we had a sunset law like some states have then congress would spend 90% or more of their time running government, looking at what does and does not work. And inertia would flip. Instead of a huge effort to kill a WWII mohair subsidy no longer needed then the same effort would be required to keep it. Such a law would require a regular clean-out, like rotating stock in your restaurant fridge. Rotten stuff gone.

It could happen, but would take a Tea Party group to give it push as the parties wouldn't want it.
The President is a fink.
June 30th, 2014 at 7:50:32 AM permalink
chickenman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 0
Posts: 368
Quote: AZDuffman
congress would spend 90% or more of their time running government
And here I was just beginning to like this idea... :-)
He's everywhere, he's everywhere...!
June 30th, 2014 at 7:51:11 AM permalink
Face
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 61
Posts: 3941
Quote: AZDuffman
"Get on with your life's work" is a saying by the late Chuck Noll, known locally as "The Emperor." Back when players were not set for life after even a good career they had to get straight jobs after. When their football skills fell off enough that they could not make the team, Noll would say "they need to get on with their life's work." Same for government. We close a dept and some people need to find new jobs. BOO HOO HOO. Lots of people need to find new jobs and careers. Ask the dealers at Showboat, Atlantic City. One was such a good waiter our VP said so in front of 500 or more people.


I know I sort of hijacked your meaning, but I seriously hate the political career option. Politics is such that you don't promote based on ability and results. You promote on popularity. And the ways to increase popularity of often damaging to the purpose at best, outright corrupt at worst.

But yes, I do agree with your point as well. Anywhere ever, if production lessens, you get fired. If your department becomes obsolete or impractical, it gets eliminated. If the funds aren't there to support it, it gets closed. Not in gov, though. Gov will just create a whole 'nuther dept to research ways to keep the other ones open, or some other asinine solution. Just stop it. Close it and get another job, same as every other person in the history of ever.

Quote: AZDuffman
The thing is that politicians love to pass laws and set up agencies but they never, ever look at what is or is not working. If we had a sunset law like some states have then congress would spend 90% or more of their time running government, looking at what does and does not work. And inertia would flip. Instead of a huge effort to kill a WWII mohair subsidy no longer needed then the same effort would be required to keep it. Such a law would require a regular clean-out, like rotating stock in your restaurant fridge. Rotten stuff gone.

It could happen, but would take a Tea Party group to give it push as the parties wouldn't want it.


I love it. Simple, practical, easy. And that's why it'll never happen =p
Be bold and risk defeat, or be cautious and encourage it.
June 30th, 2014 at 10:09:52 AM permalink
TheCesspit
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 23
Posts: 1929
It's the same problem that causes departments to spend all of their budget, in case they don't get it next year. Which is one of the most brain clenchingly awful things that happens in middle management politics.

I concur, governments spend far too much time passing new laws. I liked it when the minority government up here had to spend more time debating and less time enacting laws. It made for a period of stability. Career Politicians are a boil on the arse of democracy. The sunset laws sound reasonable, but I would have to worry about unintended consequences there... but there is a lot of merit to the idea.
It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die.... it's called Life
June 30th, 2014 at 10:46:24 AM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 135
Posts: 18136
Quote: TheCesspit

I concur, governments spend far too much time passing new laws. I liked it when the minority government up here had to spend more time debating and less time enacting laws. It made for a period of stability. Career Politicians are a boil on the arse of democracy. The sunset laws sound reasonable, but I would have to worry about unintended consequences there... but there is a lot of merit to the idea.


I would prefer we have a sunset law and they spend say 40% of their time debating to keep or drop current laws and agencies. 15% on the next year's budget, 5% on new laws, and the balance back home, listening to their voters and helping them thru the red tape they create back in D.C.

FWIF I did not come up with the idea of the sunset law, other places have them. Would probably take a Constitutional Amendment to do it.
The President is a fink.
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