In The News Today...

Quote: Altstates93

Claiming no smoking gun requires an extremely narrow reading of his speech. Of course he didn't explicitly say "Storm the Capitol Building." Through years of tweets and rallies, Trump conditioned his supporters to the point where he doesn't need to spell such things out.

"Lock her up."
"Liberate Michigan."
"Stand back and stand by."

By the time he told the crowd that "you will never take back our country with weakness", they all knew what he wanted to happen at the Capitol Building.

While his mob wreaked havoc, he did nothing. Which is consistent with idea that he fully intended the consequences of his speech.

He didn't need to yell "fire" to start one.

If Trump is going to be charged with insurrection, riot, etc...then that charge is going to come in his capacity as a private citizen. That's assuming any charge over and above Impeachment/Conviction, but is what we're talking about here.

I can't just say, "I don't like Trump," and then say I would want to have that happen accordingly. It is my position that any citizen has a near-absolute right to Free Speech and, when we're looking at potentially charging someone for incitement, whatever the speaker said needs to be looked at as narrowly, and as literally, as possible. It might be fun and games for them to go after Trump, but if you do, then you set a dangerous precedent by which the implications, if they even exist at all, of political speech can result in running afoul of the law.

In short, I'm not just thinking about Trump here---I'm also thinking of the overall implications that might have on Freedom of Speech. I certainly don't trust the Democrats not to go after EVERYONE they don't like where something a speaker said can even be remotely argued to have led to some event or another...cancel culture already goes after people now. I tend to think there are many Democrats out there already (but, probably not most) who are no great fans of the First Amendment, at least, not in those cases in which the speaker is saying something they don't like.

Quote: rxwine

I agree with you. But there are plenty of people willing to give it a narrow reading.

If you're going to be talking about it in terms of criminal charges, then my opinion is you SHOULD read it as narrowly as possible. That has nothing to do with Trump. That has to do with not setting a dangerous precedent that could de facto constrain Freedom of Speech for everybody.

Quote: Altstates93

I wonder if anyone will try filing a wrongful death suit against Trump.

That wouldn't require a smoking gun.

It would have tons more substantiation than nearly every one of the dozens of election lawsuits.

That would be fine. Civil suits are based on a, "Preponderance of the evidence," standard. Although, I will say that finding an impartial jury would be a hell of a difficult task!

(Quote clipped, relevance)

Quote: gamerfreak

One was trampled to death holding a "don't thread on me flag".

That's a strong early contender for the, "Ironic Death of the Year Award," folks. I might not have made my play for the title quite so early, but maybe this bold move can pay off when you set the bar that high.

Quote:

One fell off the scaffolding, as they tried to ascend on the congress building onto the 2nd floor to arrest congress people with zip ties.

Perhaps he should have used some of the zip ties to construct a climbing device.

Quote:

And one accidentally tasered himself while trying to steal a painting off the wall, and had a heart attack.

The way he died was just nuts.

I figured one of them was probably a heart attack, and said so, but I'd never have gotten the direct cause correctly in a million years. I just figured you had some older people there, lots of excitement (I'm not using that word in a positive way, to be clear), so it just seemed like a reasonable guess.

Quote: Mission146

In short, I'm not just thinking about Trump here---I'm also thinking of the overall implications that might have on Freedom of Speech. I certainly don't trust the Democrats not to go after EVERYONE they don't like where something a speaker said can even be remotely argued to have led to some event or another...cancel culture already goes after people now. I tend to think there are many Democrats out there already (but, probably not most) who are no great fans of the First Amendment, at least, not in those cases in which the speaker is saying something they don't like.

Agree here except I do thing most liberals do not like the First Amendment because it allows speech they do not like. All you need to do is look at how they act when a conservative is invited to speak at a college or how social media censors conservative speech.

Quote: Evenbob

Here's what's going to happen as soon as
Heels Up/Dementia Crime Family Joe enter
the White House. The front door will slam,
they will lock it tight, and go right back to
being Obama's opaque White House.
Because have no doubts, this whole thing is
being orchestrated from behind the scenes
by Barry Obama. Obama will control Biden
and then Heals Up
like they're puppets on a string. The media
will go from
having lots to talk about everyday with Trump,
to having nothing to talk about with Biden.

Does it occur to you that some of us might not want to have every single thing the POTUS is doing crammed down our throats every day? I certainly don't. I pretty much 86'ed all of my Facebook Friends who aren't on there for gambling reasons because I was sick of having it shoved in front of my eyes everywhere I went.

As far as Obama, "Controlling," Biden behind the scenes: I'm perfectly fine with that. After the last four years, I'll gladly take eight more of Barry O.

Were there not Presidential term limits and Obama had run against Trump in 2016, Trump would have been thrashed across the country. Might have even lost Ohio. I know you disagree, but your recent prediction record isn't so hot, so I'd say my opinion is just as valid as yours. I know my POTUS predictions for 2020 were much closer.

Quote:

Trump would give hour-long press conferences where
he answered every question. Obama would go
months and months and months without ever
being heard from, and when he did have a press
conference he would take four or five questions.
Biden will be even worse. And Heals Up is such
an awful air headed extemporaneous speaker,
her press conferences will be a joke. She'll laugh
and giggle and never answer direct questions.
I give Crime Family Joe 90 days in office before
he resigns and Heels Up names Hillary as VP.
Mark my words..

GOOD! I don't need to hear from the POTUS every day. Ideally, I'd only hear from him when something major is going on. If I want to follow the Congressional day-to-day, I don't need him for that, I know how to read.

Also, it would be, "Heels," not, "Heals." To the last, the only thing I would say is that I would absolutely not name H. Clinton as my VP in that scenario. Clinton lost in 2016 chiefly because there was ALSO a net unfavorable opinion of her. She's old news and was never that well-liked.

Quote: odiousgambit

what do you make of this assertion? you can watch the whole thing but definitely go to 13:50

whatever else is to be said, this will not be covered by the mainstream media

Video removed. What was it?

Quote: Mission146

Also, it would be, "Heels," not, "Heals." To the last, the only thing I would say is that I would absolutely not name H. Clinton as my VP in that scenario. Clinton lost in 2016 chiefly because there was ALSO a net unfavorable opinion of her. She's old news and was never that well-liked.

He did say "heels up" most of the times. I call typo or he is using talk to text.

Quote: AZDuffman

He did say "heels up" most of the times. I call typo or he is using talk to text.

That's fine. It probably was a typo if he's used the correct word previously.

Quote: Mission146

Video removed. What was it?

Giuliani provided some video footage that is being suppressed by mainstream. For the most part these videos were 'Trump's People', TP, if that is what we should call them, who put up resistance against the lawless behavior and/or were trying to make sure it was at least documented. The outraged crowd shouting "Antifa! Antifa!" is remarkable. Giuliani would have you conclude it was mostly Antifa and other violence prone lefties who did the breaking-in.

I'd say it was pertinent evidence but not convincing as to the "mostly" factor. We know for sure some of TP were involved in the worst behavior, such as the woman who got herself shot and killed. Some non-TP fringe right-wingers might have construed the "mostly" aspect, maybe, we don't know...G. doesn't go there.

But if all you watch is CNN, MSNBC, etc, you would conclude it was TP 100%.

Giuliani is concluding some dubious things in addition, but these videos are being suppressed, so hats off to showing them. Don't know why it was removed.

[edits]