Original Sin?

January 17th, 2019 at 2:19:07 AM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Quote: petroglyph
Hard to imagine any other way .


Of course it was meant to be taken
literally. Why write it otherwise, These
were extremely superstitious people,
they were ruled by the supernatural.
We're now ruled by science, the old
useless ways are dead and gone.

Except to the spiritually ignorant, of
course.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
January 17th, 2019 at 4:25:01 AM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 67
Posts: 7596
Quote: Evenbob
Of course it was meant to be taken
literally. Why write it otherwise, These
were extremely superstitious people,
they were ruled by the supernatural.
We're now ruled by science, the old
useless ways are dead and gone.

Except to the spiritually ignorant, of
course.


Don't be so hard on yourself Bob. You are spiritually ignorant but I don't think it is all your fault. Something obviously happened to make you so angry and closed minded concerning God.

Everything that is written is not always meant to be taken literally. Like when you say "they were ruled by the supernatural." You don't actually mean that some person , The Supernatural, ruled over the people. You also don't mean that there was no scientific knowledge at the time and that they believed everything was magic or a god. You are using hyperbole and exaggeration to make a point because not everything is to be taken literally.
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (
January 17th, 2019 at 6:09:01 AM permalink
aceofspades
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 83
Posts: 2019
Quote: FrGamble
I don't take this passage literally and I don't think it was written to be taken that way. However, in Jesus' name demons are still being cast out, the Catholic (which means universal) Church prays in every language, sin (represented by snakes and poison) is forgiven by God, and miracles of healing still occur today.




This is typical in religions - to pick and choose which ancient texts should be taken as literal versus which are to be taken as allegory
January 17th, 2019 at 9:20:10 AM permalink
Dalex64
Member since: Mar 8, 2014
Threads: 3
Posts: 3687
Quote: aceofspades
This is typical in religions - to pick and choose which ancient texts should be taken as literal versus which are to be taken as allegory


I've pointed that out a few times. Here's an example:

https://answersingenesis.org/genesis/did-bible-authors-believe-in-a-literal-genesis/

Quote:
Conclusion
The Bible is crystal clear. We must believe Genesis 1–11 as literal history because Jesus, the New Testament Apostles, and the Old Testament prophets did, and because these opening chapters of Genesis are foundational to the rest of the Bible.


that was probably a protestant view. here are a few catholic views:

https://www.catholiceducation.org/en/controversy/answering-atheists/how-to-read-the-first-chapter-of-genesis.html

Quote:
Leo XIII's Providentissimus Deus (1893): The author of Genesis did not intend to provide a scientific explanation of how God created the world. Unfortunately there are still biblical fundamentalists, Catholic and Protestant, who do not embrace this point.


Quote:
When Christ said that the mustard seed was the smallest of seeds — and it is about the size of a speck of dust — He was not laying down a principle of botany. In fact, botanists tell us there are smaller seeds. Our Lord was simply talking to the men of His time in their own language, and with reference to their own experience.


Quote:
The Bible was never meant to be read apart from the teaching authority established by Christ.


Even with that, there are some catholic and protestant beliefs that are taken as literal truth from the bible that fly in the face of science, yet the simplest of statements, about mustard seeds, snakes, and poisons, are categorized as not attempting to be literally true.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." Daniel Patrick Moynihan
January 17th, 2019 at 10:14:05 AM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Quote: Dalex64
Even with that, there are some catholic and protestant beliefs that are taken as literal truth from the bible that fly in the face of science, yet the simplest of statements, about mustard seeds, snakes, and poisons, are categorized as not attempting to be literally true.


The NT can mean anything you want it to
mean, pick what you like and ignore the
rest. FrG loves to chortle about how long
Xtionity has been around. That's because
it changes all the time to fit the times. And
because there are 2500 different versions,
and counting.

I prefer the version where its made up bullshite
nonsense. Prove me wrong..
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
January 17th, 2019 at 10:48:56 AM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 67
Posts: 7596
The one who has been around the longest, from the beginning, has not changed and that's Catholicism.

I can see what you mean though. When anyone can just pick and chose whatever they want to believe and their own personal interpretation it gets crazy. It is essential to have an authority or an official author who can clearly articulate what is what. That, of course, is the Church that put the Bible together in the first place.
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (
January 19th, 2019 at 5:00:54 AM permalink
aceofspades
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 83
Posts: 2019
Quote: FrGamble
*EXCERPT*It is essential to have an authority or an official author who can clearly articulate what is what.


But see 1 Corinthians 2:11

For who knows a person’s thoughts except the spirit of that person, which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.



Quote: FrGamble
*EXCERPT*That, of course, is the Church that put the Bible together in the first place.


Exactly!
January 19th, 2019 at 10:46:15 AM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Quote: aceofspades
But see 1 Corinthians 2:11
For who knows a person’s thoughts except the spirit of that person, which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.


Good ol circular logic again. You can't prove
a person even has a 'spirit', but if he does
then the god you invent must have one too.
And why would your spirit know your thoughts
anyway. I'm having my thoughts and I can
barely keep up with them, let alone know
what they all mean.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
January 20th, 2019 at 1:08:08 AM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Christians love to brag about their religion. How it spread all
over the world because the word of Jesus was so wonderful.
That's not what happened at all. Christianity is the Standard Oil
of religions. At one time Standard Oil supplied over 90% of the
worlds kerosene. That's how Standard Oil started, by selling
kerosene. Before there were cars and gasoline.

The owner of Standard Oil, John Rockefeller, was ruthless. His
people would go into a town were there was another kerosene
manufacturer and offer to buy him out. If he refused,
Standard Oil would open up a branch in that town and undercut
his prices so the competitor was forced to go out of business.
Eventually Standard Oil was a monopoly by getting rid of all
the competition. They ruled the world in kerosene sales.

The Catholic Church is no different than Standard Oil. In the early
days they would go into a small town and forcefully convert the
pagans. They would tear down their churches and temples,
destroy their statues, and wipe out any sign the religion was
ever there. This went on for hundreds of years until the only
religion that was left in Europe was Christianity and Judaism.
And of course the Christians went after the Jews to forcefully
convert them. This is all well documented history, you can
look it up anywhere.

So yeah, Christianity has been around for a long time because
for hundreds and hundreds of years it was the only game in
town. They had a forced monopoly, just like Standard Oil did.
It has nothing to do with the Holy Spirit or the words of Jesus
or anything some God wanted. It was the result of brute force.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
January 20th, 2019 at 5:21:33 AM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 67
Posts: 7596
You can tell this is a quote of some kind because it is a different style than Evenbob uses. Does he want to take credit for this quote and pretend it's his? Notice the quote blithely says this is historical fact without any proof. What this really is: a desperate tired myth to explain away the miracle of Christianity and it's spread as well as its impact on humanity. Bob's fake argument here is without merit.
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (