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Original Sin?
| February 9th, 2017 at 11:05:19 AM permalink | |
| FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 |
Sure we can talk about the "Theory of God" as long as you admit that it is just as certain as the "Theory of Gravity" or the "Theory that the Earth revolves around the Sun". The slowly accumulating evidence that supports the theory of God has reached the point of certainty, not just for those who regularly experience the real presence of God but even for those who objectively look at all the evidence. “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |
| February 9th, 2017 at 11:38:06 AM permalink | |
| Nareed Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 346 Posts: 12545 |
Let me pose a question for you: do you think today's Christians are as devout in their beliefs overall as the pagans, Jews, Zoroastrians or Christians of the First century CE? Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER |
| February 9th, 2017 at 12:20:01 PM permalink | |
| pew Member since: Jan 8, 2013 Threads: 4 Posts: 1232 | So about as much proof as for the existence of God as the cause for all of reality. Thank you, We all start with a bias. |
| February 9th, 2017 at 12:38:28 PM permalink | |
| Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 148 Posts: 25978 |
Are you aware that Buddhists do not believe in a deity? And Hindus have no personal version of a god? Are you aware that the vast majority of the world believed in witches for millennia and 11 countries still hunt for witches and often they are put to death? By your reasoning, we should all believe in witches because most of humanity believed in them and millions still do. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
| February 9th, 2017 at 1:01:58 PM permalink | |
| Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 148 Posts: 25978 |
You're ability to misunderstand and twist a post to change its meaning accomplishes nothing. Also, your choice to swoop in and lay an egg, then ignore the responses to it, is not very productive. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
| February 9th, 2017 at 1:32:37 PM permalink | |
| FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 |
For goodness sakes for the 100x it is not reasonable at all to say that just because some amount of people believe in something we all should! However, as stinkingliberal made clear in the post above it does mean something to have accumulating testimonies of similar experiences of God. There are other things that lots of people believe that reason can clearly shows makes no sense. Belief in witches is something that can empirically be shown to be false hence the small number of people who still believe in witch hunts. It is never a good idea to just take one piece of evidence and put all your eggs in one basket. “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |
| February 9th, 2017 at 2:11:07 PM permalink | |
| FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 |
It's a hard question to answer because now Christianity is so large and varied. I think the Christians in the Middle East are just as devout in their beliefs as first century Christians. Those Christians who go to Church on Sunday in the suburbs and don't think about God again till next Sunday morning are definitely not as devout. “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |
| February 9th, 2017 at 2:16:22 PM permalink | |
| Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 148 Posts: 25978 |
But you say it about Xtionity all the time!! You are always pointing out that millions of people have been Christians in the last 2000 years, and that alone should be proof that the story of Jesus is real. All it's proof of is there is never a shortage of gullible people. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
| February 9th, 2017 at 2:21:39 PM permalink | |
| stinkingliberal Member since: Nov 9, 2016 Threads: 17 Posts: 731 |
My point exactly. They tell me about their experiences, that also means nothing. They tell me about MY experiences, that means that more than one person witnessed it, which increases the possibility of it actually having happened. If I widen my definition of evidence beyond personal experience and scientific observation, then I have perverted the very concept of evidence. I (like the courts in the US) can't take hearsay evidence into account. Somebody tells me they witnessed a divine manifestation. Fine, I say. Do you have photos? Video? Audio? Is there someone else who can verify the manifestation that you saw? Failing that, I can't take your anecdote as factual. EVEN THOUGH you may really really believe in your heart of hearts that you saw God. (As an aside, migraine sufferers used to regularly report the "auras" that they experienced prior to an attack as God manifesting himself to them.) I don't give any weight to your 99% figure, though I think it's way too high (in many Western societies up until very recently, it would have been FATAL to say that you didn't believe in God). The fact that a given percentage of people believe in something gives no factual weight to it. Again, EVIDENCE is what I require. And I don't mean inferential evidence. You say Christ talked to you. Fine. Why should I believe you? Why should you believe me if I say I just talked to Elvis? Same thing. Same standard of proof! I wish you would drop the insulting tone about my "radical skepticism." Realizing that I could be wrong about or imagining something I believe to be true--how is that so radical? And "come back to sanity"? Are you implying that I'm insane because I don't believe in God or that I require proof of his existence before I do? |
| February 9th, 2017 at 2:29:39 PM permalink | |
| stinkingliberal Member since: Nov 9, 2016 Threads: 17 Posts: 731 |
There are mountains of evidence supporting the existence and origins of the universe; there is no evidence whatsoever for the existence of God. So yeah, exactly equivalent :) The difference between science and religion in how they assess the nature of reality is that science forms hypotheses and theories, adds incrementally and slowly to its understanding, and always leaves open the possibility that it's wrong. Christianity, like almost all other religions, expresses absolute certainty about everything and brooks no dissent or statements that it has ANYTHING wrong, even in the slightest detail. Understanding and accepting science is not a bias. Scientific views of the universe include the possibility that there is a divine creator out there. It just might not be remotely resembling what earthly religion thinks it is. Really, now, what is the objective actual chance that Christianity has it all correct? |