Original Sin?

Quote: FrGamble

You need to learn humility in the face of mother nature. It would be much more wise to say that she can be persuaded, but never commanded.

Nature is a one-trick pony. A complex one, and the trick is never as simple as it seems. But once you figure out a trick, you can command "nature" to do as you want, reliably and repeatedly.

Or have you never travelled in relative comfort and near-perfect safety inside an air bubble contained in a metal tube, racing at 900 kmh at an altitude that would otherwise kill you in seconds?

Quote: Nareed

Ok. Care to visit a pediatric cancer unit, and tell the patients and their families their children are suffering for the sins of other people?

Yeah we can bring along some pharmaceutical company reps. and some from companies that pollute the earth to put a face to the reality. After we are done telling them that there suffering is not their fault but the result of sin and a broken world you can tell them that their life has no significance or meaning and that they were dealt an unfair and unjust hand and they should just fold and go into oblivion. What do you think? I'll need to come with you of course so I can clean up the messy despair your lies fill the hearts of these poor kids with.

Quote: Nareed

Nature is a one-trick pony. A complex one, and the trick is never as simple as it seems. But once you figure out a trick, you can command "nature" to do as you want, reliably and repeatedly.

Oh man you are like a tiger trainer. You do what the tiger wants to do and things will be okay. You try to do something the tiger does not want to do and the pain it unleashes on you cannot be tamed or stopped.

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Or have you never travelled in relative comfort and near-perfect safety inside an air bubble contained in a metal tube, racing at 900 kmh at an altitude that would otherwise kill you in seconds?

Again be very careful here and pay attention to the whims of mother nature. Make no mistake about it, your metal tube will not keep you safe if you try to command or force your desired route and destination on nature.

Quote: FrGamble

Yeah we can bring along some pharmaceutical company reps.

The same bastards who make the drugs that might cure their God-given cancer? How dare they?

You have more problems than an imaginary deity can handle, or even a real one (did any exist). Nature doesn't respond to threats, and it doesn't engage in conspiracies. Cancer afflicts a variety of living beings, and it's not always caused by pollution. It's never caused by drug companies who have cancer treatments to sell.

Quote: FrGamble

Oh man you are like a tiger trainer. You do what the tiger wants to do and things will be okay. You try to do something the tiger does not want to do and the pain it unleashes on you cannot be tamed or stopped.

What does that have to do with the price of beer?

Animals do as they want. They have actual minds as wills, and you can only lead their actions so much. Even small dogs can hurt you if you're not careful. Large dogs are always potentially dangerous, no matter how playful and docile they may be most of the time. And any cat past suckling age can kill you any time it wants. They are gods, after all ;)

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Again be very careful here and pay attention to the whims of mother nature. Make no mistake about it, your metal tube will not keep you safe if you try to command or force your desired route and destination on nature.

To paraphrase Victor Hugo: "The fuck?"

Once you're done commanding nature and have built a plane, you need to obey the plane's specs and limits. You can command a 747 to climb indefinitely. You cannot command it and nature not to stall past its design ceiling.

It's also not caused by the children in pediatric care units, but it exists. While you seem content to blame a God you don't even think is real you avoid the real problem of despair that you condemn these children and their families to. I also find it interesting that in other posts you claim to be commanding mother nature to do your bidding. So have we just not kicked mother nature enough into submission? or perhaps is some of the rise in cancer because we think we can control and force mother nature to do as we want? You are so twisted up and have so many problems that only the real God can help you to come to some consistent and reasonable understanding of life.

Quote: Nareed

What does that have to do with the price of beer?

Animals do as they want. They have actual minds as wills, and you can only lead their actions so much. Even small dogs can hurt you if you're not careful. Large dogs are always potentially dangerous, no matter how playful and docile they may be most of the time. And any cat past suckling age can kill you any time it wants. They are gods, after all ;)

You didn't get the analogy. The tiger is mother nature and when you say you control her make no mistake about it - this is only because she wants you to and allows you to.

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Once you're done commanding nature and have built a plane, you need to obey the plane's specs and limits. You can command a 747 to climb indefinitely. You cannot command it and nature not to stall past its design ceiling.

Again why do you say you are commanding nature when you build a plane that she allows to fly? I know I am speaking metaphorically as if nature had a will but I think it will help you understand the point. You can do nothing that nature will not allow you to do. When we force ourselves on nature because of our convenience or our desires without thinking about the consequences we also end up causing problems.

Quote: FrGamble

While you seem content to blame a God you don't even think is real

I don't blame your three gods. I say that if you were consistent, you would blame them for having built in cancer in their creation.

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you avoid the real problem of despair that you condemn these children and their families to.

Now I cause cancer?

Wow.

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or perhaps is some of the rise in cancer because we think we can control and force mother nature to do as we want?

You're crossing into mystical naturalism. I don't think Francis the First would be pleased about that.

About pollution, I knew some people who lived here and in Europe during the last decades of the XIX and the first decades of the XX Century. Do you know what cities were like then? They stank of horse manure and, in some small towns, human waste, and garbage. Clean water was not something you took for granted, and bathing was an occasional thing.

Do you know what the infant mortality rate was even in rich countries back then? Let's just say losing a child was expected, not the rare tragedy it is today.

This kind of pollution was much worse than what we endure today. That's not to say we shouldn't eliminate today's pollution, which does have harmful effects, but that we've progressed to a less harmful type of pollution from what we lived with 100 years ago.

And we've gotten it better now because we've commanded "nature" to do our bidding.

Quote: FrGamble

Yeah we can bring along some pharmaceutical company reps.

Aren't pharm company's and religion selling the same thing, hope?

Quote: Nareed

I don't blame your three gods. I say that if you were consistent, you would blame them for having built in cancer in their creation.

I don't understand how or why you don't get it. God didn't build in cancer. When we get to the true and lasting perfect home that we are destined for then you will see that cancer is not there, nor is sin, or pollution for that matter. Maybe go back and read Genesis again to see the world that God created before our pride and desire to command nature and God to do our bidding entered into the scene.

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You're crossing into mystical naturalism. I don't think Francis the First would be pleased about that.

You really are incapable of seeing that your actions can have real and even eternal consequences on other people. Is that a defense mechanism or willful ignorance?

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And we've gotten it better now because we've commanded "nature" to do our bidding.

Rather than defending pollution (did you coach Trump for his debate?) perhaps a better tact would be to recognize that we have gotten better at listening to nature and are becoming more aware of the consequences of not listening, I pray it is not too late.