Woke, DEI, ESG, and such ideology trainwrecks

Quote: Gandler

There are no DEI initiatives for Army pilots...

maybe there is some technical reason you can say this, but that some people have been pushing women for combat roles, including air roles, has been going on for a long time. I remember the woman who was killed in the 1990s trying to land on an aircraft carrier ... many people then claimed she was pushed too hard. OK that was the Navy but it's going to be a hard sell to get me to believe no such thing is going on

Quote: missedhervee

Women are just as physically and mentally capable of flying a plane or helicopter as men are: where's the beef?

If that is the case then why is DEI needed?

Quote: odiousgambit

maybe there is some technical reason you can say this, but that some people have been pushing women for combat roles, including air roles, has been going on for a long time. I remember the woman who was killed in the 1990s trying to land on an aircraft carrier ... many people then claimed she was pushed too hard. OK that was the Navy but it's going to be a hard sell to get me to believe no such thing is going on

Okay, maybe the Army isn't concerned with a qualified person flying around a multi-ton object often full of weapons and transporting other people.

Is that your position?

Quote: AZDuffman

If that is the case then why is DEI needed?

They need it because anybody who's been around women for any length of time knows they're about 75% emotion driven most of the time. And who wants that in positions where a cool head is needed. I'll say it again, Camille Paglia a well-known feminist says that if women were allowed to run everything humankind would still be hunting and gathering and living in grass huts because women in general are incapable of making consistent rational decisions that are based on reality and not based on emotion. This is why DEI was born.

Quote: odiousgambit

maybe there is some technical reason you can say this, but that some people have been pushing women for combat roles, including air roles, has been going on for a long time. I remember the woman who was killed in the 1990s trying to land on an aircraft carrier ... many people then claimed she was pushed too hard. OK that was the Navy but it's going to be a hard sell to get me to believe no such thing is going on

Several things, women in combat is not DEI (nor is that is what is going on here.) Even if combat arms policy for all was reversed she would still have been the helicopter pilot.

The pilot in question is not a combat arms role (not even considered a "fighter pilot" which I think was the last pilot role women were restricted from.) There have been women soldiers piloting helicopters since the 1970s.

I don't want to get sidetracked into the combat arms stuff, but my position is the same, if they meet the standard, who cares if a soldier is male or female.

This was a routine, non-combat, training route, there was nothing here that would have any relevance to one of the soldiers being a woman (even if you view combat roles as questionable, which is silly.)

Quote: Gandler

This was a routine, non-combat, training route, there was nothing here that would have any relevance to one of the soldiers being a woman (even if you view combat roles as questionable, which is silly.)

Or so your Libby riddled brain would like you to believe.

Quote: AZDuffman

If that is the case then why is DEI needed?

Because of bigoted, sexist blockheads who paternallistically would rather keep women barefoot and pregnant than to allow them equality of opporunity.

That's why...duh!

Quote: Gandler

Several things, women in combat is not DEI (nor is that is what is going on here.)

I'm using the term DEI pretty loosely, under what pertinent name a get-women-in-combat program goes by I don't know.

Quote:

Even if combat arms policy for all was reversed she would still have been the helicopter pilot.

not sure what you're saying

Quote:

The pilot in question is not a combat arms role (not even considered a "fighter pilot" which I think was the last pilot role women were restricted from.) There have been women soldiers piloting helicopters since the 1970s.

no doubt, but back then you had confidence it all made sense, women's auxiliary roles are needed

Quote:

I don't want to get sidetracked into the combat arms stuff, but my position is the same, if they meet the standard, who cares if a soldier is male or female.

This was a routine, non-combat, training route, there was nothing here that would have any relevance to one of the soldiers being a woman ...

potentially she would never be asked to go into combat, but who knows what they were thinking when they trained her. Sometimes women just naturally slide into more sensible roles

Quote:

... (even if you view combat roles as questionable, which is silly.)

what you are doing to a woman putting her in combat is terrible. Such soldiers have to get in a mental mindset to be able to kill , I just think that's a terrible thing to do to a woman. The Russians had to do it in WW2, we don't.

There are other reasons, here is Hegseth on it,

Quote:

“I’m straight up just saying we should not have women in combat roles. It hasn’t made us more effective. Hasn’t made us more lethal. Has made fighting more complicated,” he said in a podcast hosted by Shawn Ryan on Nov. 7. Women have a place in the military, he said, just not in special operations, artillery, infantry and armor units....
Hegseth has said he is not suggesting women should not be combat pilots, but that they should not be in jobs such as SEALs, Army Rangers, infantry, armor and artillery where “strength is a differentiator.” He insists the military lowered standards to get more women into combat roles. The services have said they did not decrease the standards for any of the combat jobs.

I'm disagreeing with him about being combat pilots! I think it is terrible what happened to Tammy Duckworth!

https://apnews.com/article/military-women-defense-hegseth-combat-916d50a7b465ccfea1aeb13bb91064b3 .

Quote: missedhervee

Because of bigoted, sexist blockheads who paternallistically would rather keep women barefoot and pregnant than to allow them equality of opporunity.

That's why...duh!

Women have equality of opportunity. Thing is most just want equality for the fun stuff.

You sound like this feminist I was on a piece that said how few female auto mechanics there were. Woman said something like, "we have to drag the neandrathals out of the stone ages." Did she address why women don't go into auto mechanics? Nope, it had to be that men were holding them back. Couldn't be that so many women just are not interested in the subject.

So, you are saying next time you fly commercial you prefer a pilot selected because she needed extra help?

Quote: odiousgambit

I'm using the term DEI pretty loosely, under what pertinent name a get-women-in-combat program goes by I don't know.
not sure what you're saying

no doubt, but back then you had confidence it all made sense, women's auxiliary roles are needed

potentially she would never be asked to go into combat, but who knows what they were thinking when they trained her. Sometimes women just naturally slide into more sensible roles

what you are doing to a woman putting her in combat is terrible. Such soldiers have to get in a mental mindset to be able to kill , I just think that's a terrible thing to do to a woman. The Russians had to do it in WW2, we don't.

There are other reasons, here is Hegseth on it,

I'm disagreeing with him about being combat pilots! I think it is terrible what happened to Tammy Duckworth!

https://apnews.com/article/military-women-defense-hegseth-combat-916d50a7b465ccfea1aeb13bb91064b3 .

Yeah, it is a terrible thing to do to a man too..... But, if you want the job, that is what you have to do.

Personally all roles should be open to anyone. Tests should all be gender neutral, and if you pass great, if you fail too bad.

What I was saying above, even if this changes under the new administration (reverse of combat arms roles to women, banning them like before,) that would in no way effect a woman from the role she was in. She was a standard pilot, women have been doing that in the Army for over 50 years (edit: actually looking it up now, 1974 apparently, so I was right, just over 50 years....)

And, combat arms/combat roles being open to women, is a whole different debate that has nothing to do with DEI. (And, again is not relevant to women being pilots which is the only factor here.)

So this crash, even if it turns out she was to blame or not (or partially at fault, or just made a minor error which contributed, whatever it turns out to be....) her being a woman will have nothing to do with anything.

Forget the Army. Let's say the AA craft was in the wrong, and the private AA pilot made an error, and let's say that pilot (or both why not,) happened to be women? Would you say women should not be allowed to fly private aircraft? When discussing pilots I am not sure how gender even comes up.

What is most likely to blame, is thanks to Trump's hiring freezes, and forced retirements, the local FAA was woefully understaffed and stretched too thin..... (Apparently along with 90% of towers nationwide.) And, Trump wants to force more into retirement, which was already a big issue, because the era of FAA people seems to be over, with a large batch recently on a verge of retiring with no ability to get the same level of new people. So even if the pilot made a error, I would say Trump is to blame for the potential of an error even occurring.