Understanding Migrant status and treatment.

I'm not interested in discussing the morality of the issue, just the practicalities.

An influx of 'illegal' immigrants is common to the US, UK and many European countries. I'm interested to compare how they are treated in our different systems.

One reason I show this interest is that some of your US media claim that if your government is successful in implementing more rigorous deportation regimes, then there will be costs to your economy. e.g. https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/feds-kashkari-says-broad-based-us-deportations-could-disrupt-labor-for-some-businesses/ar-AA1tPVHC#fullscreen
Cheap undocumented, immigrant labour will supposedly become scarce and fruit and veg will cost more to get picked and produced, for example. Maybe undocumented casual workers will need replacing, at significant cost to employers.

That, to me, implies that some, many, of those entering your country clandestinely, get paid employment????

Is that really the case? what are the restrictions on such employment.

I'll outline the UK system for comparison.

Someone 'sneaking into' the UK, usually by small boat, can and usually does claim 'Asylum'. They undergo some assessment and strict interviews and their claim for asylum starts a long process. While awaiting a decision, they are given some sort of basic accommodation and a debit card which receives a very small weekly credit.
UK Asylum seekers are not allowed to take any sort of employment and there are high penalties for any business or person that gives them paid employment.

The accommodation given will be minimal, such as provided by a shared room hostel, old army barracks, or even a shared room on a prison ship. Our asylum seekers are not generally imprisoned or detained unless their claim is denied, in which case the might get detained pending repatriation.

UK asylum seekers will receive accomodation with or without food provided. If food is provided, they get just £8.86 (US$10) per week to cover all other living costs. If food is NOT provided, they receive £49.19 (US$62)

Yes. This is controversial, especially when our government has taken over whole hotels to house these folk.

Here's the full UK guidance, in case I explained it wrong. If they DON'T ask for asylum, they get nothing, of course.
https://www.gov.uk/asylum-support/what-youll-get

So...... For my curiosity, if someone sneaks into the US and claims asylum, or maybe just surfaces as a homeless person, what does your country do with them, or for them while they await a decision on status? Are they able to get casual labour? Does the state give them any sort of shelter? Are the automatically detained under lock and key just for being undocumented??

TIA

Quote: OnceDear

I'm not interested in discussing the morality of the issue, just the practicalities.

An influx of 'illegal' immigrants is common to the US, UK and many European countries. I'm interested to compare how they are treated in our different systems.

One reason I show this interest is that some of your US media claim that if your government is successful in implementing more rigorous deportation regimes, then there will be costs to your economy. e.g. https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/feds-kashkari-says-broad-based-us-deportations-could-disrupt-labor-for-some-businesses/ar-AA1tPVHC#fullscreen
Cheap undocumented, immigrant labour will supposedly become scarce and fruit and veg will cost more to get picked and produced, for example. Maybe undocumented casual workers will need replacing, at significant cost to employers.

That, to me, implies that some, many, of those entering your country clandestinely, get paid employment????

Is that really the case? what are the restrictions on such employment.

I'll outline the UK system for comparison.

Someone 'sneaking into' the UK, usually by small boat, can and usually does claim 'Asylum'. They undergo some assessment and strict interviews and their claim for asylum starts a long process. While awaiting a decision, they are given some sort of basic accommodation and a debit card which receives a very small weekly credit.
UK Asylum seekers are not allowed to take any sort of employment and there are high penalties for any business or person that gives them paid employment.

The accommodation given will be minimal, such as provided by a shared room hostel, old army barracks, or even a shared room on a prison ship. Our asylum seekers are not generally imprisoned or detained unless their claim is denied, in which case the might get detained pending repatriation.

UK asylum seekers will receive accomodation with or without food provided. If food is provided, they get just £8.86 (US$10) per week to cover all other living costs. If food is NOT provided, they receive £49.19 (US$62)

Yes. This is controversial, especially when our government has taken over whole hotels to house these folk.

Here's the full UK guidance, in case I explained it wrong. If they DON'T ask for asylum, they get nothing, of course.
https://www.gov.uk/asylum-support/what-youll-get

So...... For my curiosity, if someone sneaks into the US and claims asylum, or maybe just surfaces as a homeless person, what does your country do with them, or for them while they await a decision on status? Are they able to get casual labour? Does the state give them any sort of shelter? Are the automatically detained under lock and key just for being undocumented??

TIA

A lot are migrant workers
They have no interest in staying here permanently
They make money here then go back to Mexico for the winter.
The irony
The harder it is to cross the border , the more that stay on this side
No matter what's done on the southern border , nothing is ever done about the border in every major city in the US
Every international Airport is the border
Everybody on the planet knows the easiest way to move to the US without becoming a citizen is to enter as a tourist and then don't leave

https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/26/us/undocumented-border-officer-cec/index.html
This is a fascinating case. A US Navy veteran that became a customs and border protection agent finds out he's illegal

The Federal government busses and flies them into cities and small towns and leaves it up to those municipalities to provide care for the migrants, with no help from the federal government.

Our Mayor complained about it and ended up getting his home and office raided by the FBI. Just as Trump warned would happen.

At any given time, there are no less than 170,000 migrants being provided for in NYC. Which is costing city tax payers $4 billion annually.

The city provides shelter in forty hotels around the city, at $400 per night per room. Unlimited food and medical care is provided free of charge, courtesy of the taxpayers. Maid service included as well.

Everyone is guaranteed shelter in NYC upon request.

The migrants may apply for work permits.

They complained about the food, so the city started a debit card program which let a family of four spend $350 per week on food. Which is 30% more than the average American family spends on food per week.

The city is now suspending that program, and replacing it. Probably because the illegals were making deals with the bodegas for cash.

If they commit any crime short of murder in NYC, they are set free. The city refuses to turn them over to the Feds for deportation.

‘Migrant with loaded AR-15, suspected Mexican cartel member freed from jail after alleged assault on NYPD cops’

As for produce rotting in the fields and increasing in price, because there will be no one to pick the fruit and vegetables, the federal government brings in as many legal vetted migrants as necessary every year to meet employment needs.

The same scare tactic was used in 2016 when Trump was running for President.

After Trump became President, produce costs went down.

In 2017, a pound of apples cost $1.49. Four years later it was $1.23

Oranges $1.41 in 2018. $1.36 in 2021

Thanks for the reply.

Quote: Tanko

The Federal government busses and flies them into cities and small towns and leaves it up to those municipalities to provide care for the migrants, with no help from the federal government.

So. your states each handle it differently, each picking up the tab without federal payment?

Quote:

The city provides shelter in forty hotels around the city, at $400 per night per room. Unlimited food and medical care is provided free of charge, courtesy of the taxpayers. Maid service included as well.

Similar here: UK has taken over a few hotels in each provincial city and filled with migrants. Cost about $200 per night each. Not a popular decision. Health care is free to ALL from our National Health Service, which is always creaking from the cost. Controversial, of course, but then we don't get the silly situation where migrants get free healthcare while citizens pay. That must really annoy your citizens.

Our current government is proposing to end hotel contracts, but has not explained what that entails.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67201589

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Everyone is guaranteed shelter in NYC upon request.

I'll say. Good, for that. A bit of humanity goes a long way.

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The migrants may apply for work permits.

Now, that's a BIG difference. Our migrants have NO permission to work until invited to stay.

Quote:

...the city started a debit card program which let a family of four spend $350 per week on food. Which is 30% more than the average American family spends on food per week.

so, about $80 per week per person. Just a little bit more than the $63 ours are granted. I agree that that is a lot for food and more than a typical UK grocery bill. Not luxurious, but way beyond subsistence level.

Quote:

If they commit any crime short of murder in NYC, they are set free. The city refuses to turn them over to the Feds for deportation.

Interesting. Our asylum seekers are treated the same as citizens if they commit crime. They commit less crime than regular citizens, and none of it with guns.

Quote:

‘Migrant with loaded AR-15, suspected Mexican cartel member freed from jail after alleged assault on NYPD cops’

As for produce rotting in the fields and increasing in price, because there will be no one to pick the fruit and vegetables, the federal government brings in as many legal vetted migrants as necessary every year to meet employment needs.

Interesting, and I suppose that makes sense. So, they are LEGAL migrant workers, not illegal invaders. I expect that to change under drumph/miller.

If a boat has a small leak, why not look for the hole and plug it as opposed to using a bucket to bail the water out?

Because eventually the boat will likely sink, unless you can print money infinitely.


Yeah, protect your investment by bailing the water out, but fix the leak while you're at it.

One without the other is futile and very expensive.


The reason of the leak is because the internal population is dying faster than their birthing.

It will never artificially be corrected by immigrants until the birth rate is higher than the death rate.


The math magic of compounding has to be calculated and then compensated for.

It's not a one to one relationship.

It's likely much higher, such as 25 immigrants being equal to one 1970 net death.

Quote: OnceDear

So, they are LEGAL migrant workers, not illegal invaders. I expect that to change under drumph/miller.

Little or no federal money from the Feds. Biden gave NYC $200 million after Mayor Adams complained. But that was all. It lasted two weeks. Then the FBI raided Adams homes and took his phones.

The vetted migrants admitted with temporary work visas are legal. The policy will not change under Trump. When he was President, he nearly doubled the number of H-2B work visas.

'Trump administration nearly doubles H-2B guest visa program, which brings many Mexican workers'

Trump has advocated limiting the number of workers admitted under the H-1B program, which admits skilled workers and endangers the jobs of American skilled workers. Engineers and IT workers for example.

'Disney lays off 250 IT workers, after they trained foreign replacements'

'Tech and outsourcing companies continue to exploit the H-1B visa program at a time of mass layoffs'

'The top 30 H-1B employers hired 34,000 new H-1B workers in 2022 and laid off at least 85,000 workers in 2022 and early 2023'