General Election 2024

Quote: OnceDear

As an uninvolved Brit, this did sort of surprise me. It certainly looked like Biden's presidency was guilty of 'importing migrants'. Note I did not say 'importing illegals'.

So a quick google...

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/immigration-parole-biden-administration-1-million-migrants/
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/fact-focus-biden-falsely-accused-of-secret-flights-for-hundreds-of-thousands-of-immigrants/ar-BB1jsfrC
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/fact-focus-biden-falsely-accused-of-secret-flights-for-hundreds-of-thousands-of-immigrants/ar-BB1jsaVK
https://abcstlouis.com/news/nation-world/biden-admin-flew-hundreds-of-thousands-of-migrants-into-us-using-cbp-one-app-illegal-immigration-border-crisis-southern-border


So......
Prospective entrants must initiate an online application, secure a financial guarantee, and have the ability to afford their travel to a designated airport. Utilizing his “parole” authority under a longstanding 1952 law, President Biden’s administration allows entry on individual humanitarian grounds or where significant public benefit is established.

These are not 'Illegals': They are asylum applicants, with a sponsor to greet them. Or they are unaccompanied children.
They pay their own flights
They are not entitled to vote
They are entitled to work
The same parole program operated under republican presidencies and under drumpf's own tenure.
Musk specifically implies that these migrants include terrorists. Without evidence.

Idiots like Musk and drumpf are happy to conflate the words 'immigrants' and 'illegals' and even 'terrorists'. Europe has the same issue where 'asylum seekers' are stigmatised as illegals'. I've worked with and for 'asylum seekers' and have found a majority who just want to defend their families and provide for them away from refuge camps, war zones and abject poverty. Yes. Some are economic migrants seeking a better life.

Immigration is inevitable in a world where there's inequality and war and famine. It's being used by xenophobes to stir up hatred and a blame culture.

But, clearly the Optics for Biden and the Dems are awful. They're on the defensive again. And drumpf and his fascist cronies are rubbing their hands together planning deportation camps and if they could get away with it, concentration camps.

It will be interesting if they ever decide to work out a compromise, because even if one party got its way, it likely will keep going back and forth as party power switches.

Quote: OnceDear

As an uninvolved Brit, this did sort of surprise me. It certainly looked like Biden's presidency was guilty of 'importing migrants'. Note I did not say 'importing illegals'.

So a quick google...

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/immigration-parole-biden-administration-1-million-migrants/
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/fact-focus-biden-falsely-accused-of-secret-flights-for-hundreds-of-thousands-of-immigrants/ar-BB1jsfrC
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/fact-focus-biden-falsely-accused-of-secret-flights-for-hundreds-of-thousands-of-immigrants/ar-BB1jsaVK
https://abcstlouis.com/news/nation-world/biden-admin-flew-hundreds-of-thousands-of-migrants-into-us-using-cbp-one-app-illegal-immigration-border-crisis-southern-border


So......
Prospective entrants must initiate an online application, secure a financial guarantee, and have the ability to afford their travel to a designated airport. Utilizing his “parole” authority under a longstanding 1952 law, President Biden’s administration allows entry on individual humanitarian grounds or where significant public benefit is established.

These are not 'Illegals': They are asylum applicants, with a sponsor to greet them. Or they are unaccompanied children.
They pay their own flights
They are not entitled to vote
They are entitled to work
The same parole program operated under republican presidencies and under drumpf's own tenure.
Musk specifically implies that these migrants include terrorists. Without evidence.

Idiots like Musk and drumpf are happy to conflate the words 'immigrants' and 'illegals' and even 'terrorists'. Europe has the same issue where 'asylum seekers' are stigmatised as illegals'. I've worked with and for 'asylum seekers' and have found a majority who just want to defend their families and provide for them away from refuge camps, war zones and abject poverty. Yes. Some are economic migrants seeking a better life.

Immigration is inevitable in a world where there's inequality and war and famine. It's being used by xenophobes to stir up hatred and a blame culture.

But, clearly the Optics for Biden and the Dems are awful. They're on the defensive again. And drumpf and his fascist cronies are rubbing their hands together planning deportation camps and if they could get away with it, concentration camps.

If this is such a great and legal thing, why does it take a FOIA to get the general information that would take ten minutes to put together?

If his plan to open the borders is such a great thing, why not tout it instead of lying about it?

A lot of lefties here just say it is only a righty thing to say stuff about the border, but a lot of their voters are suffering from lower wages, services being taken away (schools, parks, etc.)?

The answer is that the President is a liar and he is unwilling to be transparent. His defenders will go to no end to try and blame someone else, but it was his decision to open the borders, it is his decision to keep the border open, and it is his crisis in cities.

Of course Congress needs to be criticized for not taking up EITHER bill for political reasons. They could have debated on either one of them. They didn't. CONGRESS not Republicans. All of them, especially the leaders.

Quote: DoubleGold

Much of it is about USA jobs on USA soil being taken by non-citizens, while citizens aren't hired because of DEI, etc.

That's some crazy thinking.


It's similar to China and Mexico taking our manufacturing jobs, as a result of currency manipulation.

It doesn't matter if it's legal or non-legal, the results are the same.


Those folks they're flying in are getting paid less, at least their employers hope so.

It negatively affects all USA citizens.

But good for citizens of other countries, as we continue to go down hill.

Citizens of other countries would love to make us weak.

It must end.

Two edged sword. You ( plural) want to enjoy cheap services and products provided by cheap labour, whether its imported products from Chinese factories or domestic food & products made by imported labour. But then some of you grumble that you are being under-cut and your jobs taken.

Quote: OnceDear

Two edged sword. You ( plural) want to enjoy cheap services and products provided by cheap labour, whether its imported products from Chinese factories or domestic food & products made by imported labour. But then some of you grumble that you are being under-cut and your jobs taken.

In New York, it's called yous. :)

In the south it's called ya'll. :)

In the mid-west, it's called "you guys". :)


It'd be partially OK if DEI wasn't enforced.


The net effect is only non-citizens account for the additional jobs while citizens stay unemployed or become unemployed.

It's an anti-American citizen scam.


But even without DEI, hiring persons from India, for example, to take our high-tech jobs is absolutely crazy.

Those high-tech firms need to train citizens from within.

And this has been going on for years.

Then it progressed into DEI, which is discrimination.

It was discrimination before DEI.

Quote: DoubleGold

In New York, it's called yous. :)

In the south it's called ya'll. :)


It'd be partially OK if DEI wasn't enforced.


The net effect is only non-citizens account for the additional jobs while citizens stay unemployed or become unemployed.

It's an anti-American citizen scam.


But even without DEI, hiring persons from India, for example, to take our high-tech jobs is absolutely crazy.

Those high-tech firms need to train citizens from within.

And this has been going on for years.

Then it progressed into DEI, which is discrimination.

It was discrimination before DEI.

I had to google DEI, but thanks.

Doesn't the US have 'supply and demand'? A free market economy, where employers bid down in price to get the cheapest acceptable labour, while employees bud up on their price until they get a job acceptable to them? So, An enterprise might find it cheaper to use an indian call centre than to set up a US one, or might decide to pay minimum for migrant cleaning ladies at mar a lago, rather than pander to potential local employees who won't drop their asking price, but then grumble when they can't get a job?

If you needed a software developer, as a business owner, would you pay $100,000 a year to a US citizen, or $10 an hour to an Indian contractor.... Incidentally, I've done the latter. Had some rubbish contractors but some good ones, too. One of my previous employers used call centres in India and the Philippines. The latter were really pretty good.

Supply and demand...... It's cruel, but it's life. And now we have xenophobes using it to stir up racial hatred.

We have similar issues here, probably common throughout the western world. Our health service used to make massive use of legal European doctors and nurses that came here to work, a bit cheaper than our citizens. At Brexit, they all went home because they could not work. UK citizens did not step in to fill the gap, so the NHS is going to crap. Supply of cheap labour cut off and rather than the win win we were promised, we just lost quality of service. We want low prices and businesses will shop around for labour, not caring about social cost.

Incidental difference twixt US and UK: Here, Asylum seekers are NOT allowed to work for money. They are something of a cost to the tax-payer because of that, but nobody can grumble they take our jobs. Just a different policy. I make no judgement which is better / worse.

Quote: OnceDear

I had to google DEI, but thanks.

Doesn't the US have 'supply and demand'? A free market economy, where employers bid down in price to get the cheapest acceptable labour, while employees bud up on their price until they get a job acceptable to them? So, An enterprise might find it cheaper to use an indian call centre than to set up a US one, or might decide to pay minimum for migrant cleaning ladies at mar a lago, rather than pander to potential local employees who won't drop their asking price, but then grumble when they can't get a job?

If you needed a software developer, as a business owner, would you pay $100,000 a year to a US citizen, or $10 an hour to an Indian contractor.... Incidentally, I've done the latter. Had some rubbish contractors but some good ones, too. One of my previous employers used call centres in India and the Philippines. The latter were really pretty good.

Supply and demand...... It's cruel, but it's life. And now we have xenophobes using it to stir up racial hatred.

We have similar issues here, probably common throughout the western world. Our health service used to make massive use of legal European doctors and nurses that came here to work, a bit cheaper than our citizens. At Brexit, they all went home because they could not work. UK citizens did not step in to fill the gap, so the NHS is going to crap. Supply of cheap labour cut off and rather than the win win we were promised, we just lost quality of service. We want low prices and businesses will shop around for labour, not caring about social cost.

Incidental difference twixt US and UK: Here, Asylum seekers are NOT allowed to work for money. They are something of a cost to the tax-payer because of that, but nobody can grumble they take our jobs. Just a different policy. I make no judgement which is better / worse.

This is about discrimination.

If there was not discrimination in the hiring, there would be no reason to justify it with DEI.


I'm for free markets to an extent.

Citizens have to be protected.


The way it is now, citizens are getting crushed unfairly.

Quote:

According to a November 12, 2023 article in Forbes, Trump confused Obama and Biden at least seven times between September and November last year.

Seems like a lot to me.

Quote: rxwine

Seems like a lot to me.

Didn’t you hear him say he does it on purpose?! *wink wink*

There is no doubt that both, like all of us as we age, are in decline.

I love how I get called out for "both sides" because, in the mind of the some, they can't be compared.

We CAN compare Trump and Biden. Trump loses on the truth, but Biden has lied about some very important stuff. Oh...right...the left says it is not important, so no one in the country cares (many actually do, of course).

Biden loses on energy. By a mile. Trump is not spry youngster but Biden is a shuffling old guy who spends most of his time mumbling. Shuffling alone may be no issue--some of us have injuries or issues that give us trouble walking but the combination mumbling and shuffling look like signs of a more rapid decline. His "inner circle" say that he is the Energizer Bunny behind closed doors. Maybe he will show that part tonight...

The voters get to decide on both the decline issues and policy issues now. I'd rather have two different candidates, but we have what we have for now.

Quote: RonC

We CAN compare Trump and Biden.

Sure. I think Trump loses on character to all contemporary Republican presidents as well as Nixon. Nixon at least wasn't into grifting and admiring dictators.

Sorry, I care about the President's character so much, I don't care what people think he accomplished.