Why aren't battery power vehicles cheaper?

Quote: DRich

My dreams are coming true. An all electric Harley Davidson. I can't wait until they are all electric because I really despise loud motorcycles. When all motorcycles are silent I will be at peace.

Not sure if this is an option on the Harley but many of the small electric bicycles that are all tricked out to look like a motorcycle actually have digital pipes to sound like a motorcycle. Sorry to bust your dream of silence DR.

Quote: kenarman

Quote: DRich

My dreams are coming true. An all electric Harley Davidson. I can't wait until they are all electric because I really despise loud motorcycles. When all motorcycles are silent I will be at peace.

Not sure if this is an option on the Harley but many of the small electric bicycles that are all tricked out to look like a motorcycle actually have digital pipes to sound like a motorcycle. Sorry to bust your dream of silence DR.

I would feel obligated to punch the person riding it if they were using simulated sounds.

https://www.ispot.tv/ad/OqN_/western-states-petroleum-association-california-ban-on-gasoline-cars

Western States Petroleum Association appeals to the 17 million renters in California if Governor Newsome's ban on petroleum vehicles goes through in 2035.

Quote: Pacomartin

https://www.ispot.tv/ad/OqN_/western-states-petroleum-association-california-ban-on-gasoline-cars

Western States Petroleum Association appeals to the 17 million renters in California if Governor Newsome's ban on petroleum vehicles goes through in 2035.

Its an easy fix, mandate charger installation in new parking lots. There are already codes in most places regarding the format for parking lot (total number of spaces, number of handicap spaces, number of full-sized spaces, and number compact spaces). My guess in the next decade (probably sooner in some states like CA), it will be a basic requirement in the planning process to have a certain number of spaces with chargers. This is no different than planning parking areas as is, it will just be an extra cost during construction of new complexes.

Apartment complexes are already using a vast amount of their land more mandated parking, which may be 1-2 spots per unit, plus a certain number of spots for every so many employees (it varies on local requirements). So the argument that it will be a cost that will not benefit residents that do not drive does not make sense, because apartment complexes are already mandated to spend a portion of their budget on parking design and maintenance (from ADA parking spot designs, to marking requirements, to the number of spaces, the the ratio of the type of spaces, to the required signage etc....), so tenants who do not drive are already losing a lot of features compared to those that do (not to mention the acres of space that have to be designated parking and driving areas and can never be developed into more units or recreation areas, etc....)

You can also mandate that existing apartment complexes install chargers into existing lots. This is possible, but is more (politically) difficult than mandating it from the start of the design. But, my guess is many existing apartment complexes will install chargers voluntarily to stay competitive (in States that are phasing out gas cars they will not have much of a choice if they want to rent to anyone who owns a car.....)

Quote: Gandler

You can also mandate that existing apartment complexes install chargers into existing lots. This is possible, but is more (politically) difficult than mandating it from the start of the design. But, my guess is many existing apartment complexes will install chargers voluntarily to stay competitive (in States that are phasing out gas cars they will not have much of a choice if they want to rent to anyone who owns a car.....)

What will the existing downtown apartments with no parking lots do? You have no idea how much power it will take to charge all the new EV's. An older apartment block probably would need to upgrade the main incoming service. If all the old apartments do that the power grid in the area would need to be upgraded. You need as much energy for the cars as the millions of gallons gasoline no longer required uses, it is a huge number. In BC the green people all wanted to stop a major new dam that is being built. The BC government wants to get to 25% EV's. The additional electricity required is the total output of that dam.

Quote: kenarman

What will the existing downtown apartments with no parking lots do? You have no idea how much power it will take to charge all the new EV's. An older apartment block probably would need to upgrade the main incoming service. If all the old apartments do that the power grid in the area would need to be upgraded. You need as much energy for the cars as the millions of gallons gasoline no longer required uses, it is a huge number. In BC the green people all wanted to stop a major new dam that is being built. The BC government wants to get to 25% EV's. The additional electricity required is the total output of that dam.

Which is probably why, like many changes , its going to start with a requirement for new construction.

For buildings approved with no off street parking, it would obviously not apply to them. This is where many cities are needed to get ahead of the curve in installing charging stations on public parking areas. I am proud to live in a city that is ahead of President's Biden's directives for local guidance.

Quote: Gandler

Which is probably why, like many changes , its going to start with a requirement for new construction.

For buildings approved with no off street parking, it would obviously not apply to them. This is where many cities are needed to get ahead of the curve in installing charging stations on public parking areas. I am proud to live in a city that is ahead of President's Biden's directives for local guidance.

You are still not getting the amount of power required. The average house/apartment during the night would typically draw not more than 2 or 3 KW. The size of charger that most homes would use is 9.6 KW, 3 times as much power during the night. Night is usually when the grid catches up and the reservoirs gain water. This isn't even talking about the 2 and more car families.

To keep it in perspective 10KW of solar panel is 544 sq. feet. Some people estimate that the country will need to double it's total electrical output if we go totally EV.

Quote: kenarman

You are still not getting the amount of power required. The average house/apartment during the night would typically draw not more than 2 or 3 KW. The size of charger that most homes would use is 9.6 KW, 3 times as much power during the night. Night is usually when the grid catches up and the reservoirs gain water. This isn't even talking about the 2 and more car families.

To keep it in perspective 10KW of solar panel is 544 sq. feet. Some people estimate that the country will need to double it's total electrical output if we go totally EV.

I honestly don't know enough about electrical design to comment, its something that I hope to learn more about in the years ahead.
But, if engineers who work for the government think it can be done then I have faith that it can be. Design changes are carefully considered before implementation. As long as the decision is based on logical improvements and not politics. I think we will see States that are charging ahead (like CA) and can see the costs and changes incurred in such states and adjust as needed. That is one of the great things about America, many states can experiment with different design changes and we can see how they succeed or fail and other states can adjust focus.

Quote: Gandler

As long as the decision is based on logical improvements and not politics.

Most of the states that are most interested in ZEV policies are ones that presently cannot generate the electricity they consume. Exceptions are Oregon and Connecticut.

Currently there are nine states that have adopted California's ZEV regulations :
Connecticut, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, New York, New Jersey, Oregon, Rhode Island and Vermont.

1. -58.09% Massachusetts=============
2. -57.81% Vermont=============
3. -54.15% Delaware
4. -35.23% Maryland=============
5. -23.25% Idaho
6. -19.41% California=============
7. -19.20% Ohio
8. -18.24% Virginia
9. -17.53% Tennessee
10. -11.33% Minnesota
11. -10.58% Maine=============
12. -9.61% New York=============
13. -9.23% Wisconsin
14. -7.62% Georgia
15. -4.70% Kentucky
16. -3.92% New Jersey=============
17. -3.86% North Carolina
18. -0.73% Missouri
19. -0.32% Colorado
20. 0.39% Indiana
21. 2.19% Florida
22. 3.14% Hawaii
23. 3.73% Rhode Island=============
24. 4.33% Alaska
25. 7.57% Louisiana
26. 7.86% Nevada
27. 8.28% U.S. Total
28. 12.54% Texas
29. 12.73% South Dakota
30. 15.26% Michigan
31. 16.93% Washington
32. 20.83% Iowa
33. 22.76% Nebraska
34. 23.52% Oregon=============hydroelectric power
35. 23.64% Kansas
36. 24.81% South Carolina
37. 25.61% Utah
38. 31.52% Oklahoma
39. 33.37% Illinois
40. 34.00% Arkansas
41. 34.74% Mississippi
42. 41.38% New Mexico
43. 43.55% Connecticut=============42% of Connecticut's electricity net generation came from the Millstone nuclear power station.
44. 45.71% Arizona
45. 57.30% Pennsylvania
46. 61.96% Alabama
47. 68.29% New Hampshire
48. 81.43% Montana
49. 90.86% North Dakota
50. 92.27% West Virginia
51. 151.41% Wyoming

Connecticut has one of the least energy-intensive economies and uses less energy to produce each dollar of gross domestic product (GDP) than all other states except California, Massachusetts and New York.

Quote: US Energy Information

Pennsylvania's marketed natural gas production, primarily from the Marcellus Shale, reached almost 7 trillion cubic feet in 2019, and the state is the nation's second-largest natural gas producer after Texas.
Pennsylvania was the third-largest coal-producing state in the nation in 2018, and it was the second-largest coal exporter to foreign markets.
In 2019, Pennsylvania ranked second in the nation after Illinois in electricity generation from nuclear power. However, Pennsylvania’s natural gas-fired power plants surpassed nuclear power as the largest provider of in-state electricity for the first time in 2019.
About half of Pennsylvania households use natural gas as their primary home heating fuel, and its 49 underground gas storage sites--the most for any state--are key for helping to meet heating demand in winter.
Pennsylvania is the third-largest net supplier of energy to other states, after Wyoming and Texas.

You would think that PA would support EV's, but they want nothing to do with it.