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The City on Fire
| June 17th, 2020 at 6:23:56 PM permalink | |
| Mission146 Administrator Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 23 Posts: 4147 |
You make some good points. I definitely agree entirely with the first paragraph. If people want to be nuanced, vis-a-vis patriotism, (or lack thereof) then they have the right to do that. If people want to be unashamedly patriotic to the extent of being as biased as a cheerleader for a high school football team, then they have the right to do that. If they want to say they hate America and protest everything America, then they have the right to do that. I think the last two things are pretty much equally stupid and prefer the more nuanced approach of admitting we have some problems...and that some other things are really great, or at least, were great. Maybe a few things still are. I can sit here and say ALMOST whatever I want in this post (within forum rules) and the Government isn't going to do anything about it...that's certainly pretty good. I also think that people should be allowed to peacefully protest whatever they like, but not on their employer's dime if the employer says otherwise. I think that businesses should have the right to refuse service on religious grounds, (free association) but that it's a really dumb idea for them to actually do that and will result in the loss of revenues. If you look at the example of refusing to make a very expensive and profitable cake for a gay wedding...they can refuse...but it's really dumb and I don't have a problem with folks calling out a bakery who does refuse, as that is within their rights. But, when you're going after individual people---not even knowing anything else about them---just for expressing an opinion that is anything less than outright hateful, it's gone way too far. The churches are no less guilty, in some respects, but it's not quite as much of a broad thing. You have small towns where people aren't going to get hired unless they attend one church or another, which is essentially forced religion with the alternative being to live/work elsewhere. I mean, it technically doesn't force them to believe something, but it essentially forces them to do something they don't want to. You have parents who won't let their kids date anyone who doesn't belong to the church, or at least, a church...which I suppose is within their capacity as a parent, but is pretty dumb. You'll sometimes have employers, and by employers I don't necessarily mean the owners, who will sometimes ask leading questions to ascertain religious affiliation in making a hiring decision---because I'm pretty sure it's illegal to ask directly. You'll even have some churches who will selectively give charity, selecting certain groups/people to exclude, which I suppose is their right because it's theirs to give...but kind of goes against the teachings of Jesus. But, that paradigm has totally shifted and I look at churches as more being on the defensive now. It's about time. I guess if anything positive has come from all of this, it's that. I obviously am not in control of any of it, but I guess my error in reasoning was to not assume they would just be replaced by something that is arguably worse. You're definitely left of me on Fiscal/Government spending issues, from what I can tell, but I used to basically be in the same spot you are. I moved to the Right on fiscal matters as the increased divisiveness in this country presented as more of an issue, because the conclusion at which I arrived is simply that the Federal Government is too powerful and has too much say in everything. If it didn't, then POTUS wouldn't necessarily be such an important thing and Governor/State Legislatures would be the big deal. I don't know who is bragging about being an ANTIFA member, is there actually finally some sort of centralization now? If not, I don't know what ANTIFA member would even mean aside from some small group just deciding to carry that moniker...which probably isn't the smartest idea anyway. Yeah, I'm pretty anti military intervention abroad, unless it's strictly in a defensive posture, but you being reserves doesn't upset me. lol. I do think, and I would imagine that you may disagree, that the part-timers get WAY too much in the form of pay/benefits considering it is all coming from the American tax dollar. They claim it's comparable to the, "Private market," but what the hell context is that? Who the hell is privately hiring soldiers for reserve? In any case, we're all looking like we're going to be pretty screwed. The only real solution is probably a nationwide Russian Roulette tournament until only one is left, and that one will be happy, until he/she realizes there's no way to single-handedly maintain all of the utilities. I'm kidding, of course. "War is the remedy that our enemies have chosen..let us give them all they want." William T. Sherman |
| June 17th, 2020 at 6:33:43 PM permalink | |
| Mission146 Administrator Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 23 Posts: 4147 |
That was pretty absurd, but I'm not sure Kaine meant we literally created slavery to the extent that we were the first country to ever do it. Still, what Kaine said was fairly idiotic. To even half-insinuate that we were primarily responsible for slavery is dumb, and as I understand it, Kaine is a religious guy...so if he wants an example that predates us as a country all he really need do is read The Bible. Mainstream leftists are just rank-and-file and it all goes back to the ideological purity that we just discussed. It's all tribalistic lockstep bull$*** just like the churches do---you don't go against your own unless you really have no choice. Yeah, it's certainly been a weird few weeks to a month. "War is the remedy that our enemies have chosen..let us give them all they want." William T. Sherman |
| June 17th, 2020 at 6:47:12 PM permalink | |
| Gandler Member since: Aug 15, 2019 Threads: 27 Posts: 4256 |
The government won't on Facebook either. But, mobs will heckle your employer if you post something they don't like. The Government is not the problem with speech, its the masses. If anything I think there needs to be some kind of regulation protecting people from their political views in their off time.
I agree. I mean if you employer allows it great. But, it is not a right to protest while at work, and it should be allowed to be used against you. It should be at the discretion of the employer, their clock their rules, if you don't like it, plenty of places hiring.
I know this is a popular point of yours, but I have never experienced it, even in the South. I am an atheist, nobody cares. I have never joined a church group. I don't think churches have the will or ability to police social media, not on any meaningful scale anyway.... Now, Islam, that is another story.... They have people dedicated to finding even obscure negative postings anywhere online. That is one religion it is not safe to mock.... Again, this goes back to if I was retired I would take a harder stance, but some things are not worth it when you have to worry about public image....
Oh yes. People are bad. When people group together in a sense of righteousness its just as bad if not worse than religion. That is why I intentionally refer to it as a modern inquisition....
I think the Federal government should be stronger. But, that is not an argument for here.
I know some. One brazen one in particular. I was great friends with him in college, same dorm. He was a communist (that is not an insult he was actually a party member). Very anti-American. On a personal level we got along great. But, his politics were absurd. Now, he is full blow ANTIFA, and posts "Comrades we need to look into X" (usually a person who posted something in defense of police) to incite harassment of this individual. Again, I bet at a bar we would get along great (have not seen him in person in years). But, his politics and ways of looking at the world are pure toxic.
Not really. We get paid for the number of days we work (usually two, one weekend a month), flat daily rate, I think I make something like 160-180 (not even sure to be honest) a day (and that does not matter if I work 18 hours or 9 hours, technically you have to be prepared to work 24 hours on duty days). In the Reserves we do have access to Tricare (Military Health Insurance), but you have to pay for it. I don't my employer based plan is cheaper and better. As far as other benefits, Tuition Assistance is nice (but only covers 16 hours a year). So you don't really have any government paid benefits (except TA). Other than that, I guess the biggest benefit is the opportunity to do a lot of cool training (and get paid for it) that in the private sector you never would be able to (or would have to pay a lot of money to attend). I am in a medical unit, so we have a lot of Physicians and Dentists, and also get to learn a lot of pretty cool stuff. But, yeah compared to active duty, the Reserves don't really cost that much money because we pretty much only work when needed and no real benefits (in the sense that you mean). I have argued that it probably makes sense to have more Reservists and less active members, but that is a topic for another day.
We don't have to be, there are a lot of things we can do to improve the situation. |
| June 17th, 2020 at 6:50:05 PM permalink | |
| terapined Member since: Aug 6, 2014 Threads: 73 Posts: 11804 |
Yea but the south embraced it and fought a war over it while other countries simply outlawed it.
History is history. As new info comes out, the way people view history changes. If America was the bad guy, so be it. I prefer accurate history, not a version of history glorifying America Sometimes we live no particular way but our own - Grateful Dead "Eyes of the World" |
| June 17th, 2020 at 6:54:56 PM permalink | |
| Gandler Member since: Aug 15, 2019 Threads: 27 Posts: 4256 |
Yeah basically everything Tim Kaine Said was wrong. This is not about glorifying America. This is about demonizing America. As Ben Shapiro surprisingly points out Saudi Arabia did not outlaw slavery until the 1960s (and its still kind of legal in my view), and many countries still have legal slavery. Slavery existed before European colonization. Most countries embraced it before outlawing. Its called history..... Some countries still embrace it.... America has been better than most countries…. |
| June 17th, 2020 at 7:01:32 PM permalink | |
| rxwine Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 189 Posts: 18764 |
You believe in an invisible god, and dismiss people who say they are trans? Really? |
| June 17th, 2020 at 7:08:02 PM permalink | |
| Gandler Member since: Aug 15, 2019 Threads: 27 Posts: 4256 |
Is he counting Tribal law in Native cultures? But, seriously, That is word salad. No laws existed until they did. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RozoMs95KFM Here is the full speech.... Lots of foolishness. You don't need to snip out parts to see... |
| June 17th, 2020 at 7:27:58 PM permalink | |
| Gandler Member since: Aug 15, 2019 Threads: 27 Posts: 4256 | I just got this email from a bank which I will not name: "So our teammates may observe Juneteenth—the oldest nationally celebrated commemoration of slavery ending in the United States—we’re closing at 2 pm this Friday, June 19. Juneteenth is a day of remembrance and an opportunity to commemorate African American freedom and celebrate Black culture. This year, it’s also an opportunity to speak up and create better dialogue in our communities. Remember, we’re always able to serve you with our convenient online and mobile banking experiences. It’s easy to check balances, make payments and transfers, and deposit checks—anytime, anywhere. " Banks closing early on Friday before workers can catch their checks is certainly going to help struggling communities..... I personally don't care, but it is ironic, because this will probably hurt the people they want to help most (low income people who need to cash their check Friday evening). A quick Google Search shows that a lot of private corporations are closing totally or shutting down early this Friday...…. Apparently this year June 19 is suddenly relevant and important to be closed..... Its a virtue signaling extravaganza.... I wonder how many riots will start on Friday because slavery was not ended sooner or something (for those that don't know BLM is already organizing mass events for that day)……. |
| June 17th, 2020 at 7:37:15 PM permalink | |
| rxwine Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 189 Posts: 18764 |
Lots of foolishness? Are you sure your read it. Besides if you inherit something that means you bring the whole system whole cloth. So saying we didn't inherit the system as a whole cloth is entirely correct. We created our own laws, and our own system to embrace it. here's the full transcript. We need to ban racial and religious profiling. We need to hold police officers and police departments accountable for violent reckless behavior. We need to promote better training and professional accreditation of police departments. Madam president, why do we demand that universities maintain accreditation and receive federal funds, but make no such demand of law enforcement agencies. And we need to do much more within the criminal justice system, but also within all of our systems to dismantle the structures of racism that our federal state and local governments carefully erected and maintained over centuries. We know a little bit about this in Virginia, the first African-Americans entered to the English colonies came to Point Comfort, Virginia in 1619, they were slaves they’d been captured against their will, but they landed in colonies that didn’t have slavery. There were no laws about slavery in the colonies at that time. Tim Kaine: (01:02) The United States didn’t inherit slavery from anybody we created it. It got created by the Virginia general assembly and the legislatures of other states. It got created by the court systems in colonial America in sense that enforced fugitive slave laws. We created it and we created it and maintained it over centuries. And in my lifetime, we have finally stopped some of those practices, but we’ve never gone back to undo it, stopping racist practices at year 350 or 400 years, but then taking no effort to dismantle them is not the same as truly combating racism. But I’m mindful of the challenge laid down by our young people. No more politics as usual. It’s one thing to introduce a bill we do that all the time here. So often the introduction of the bill was all that occurs no committee hearing, no committee markup, no committee vote, no floor debate, no floor vote, no signature by a president, merely words on a page and a one day story. Tim Kaine: (02:13) And then possibly a blame game about who is at fault for nothing happening. That’s been my biggest disappointment in seven and a half years in the Senate. Unlike my service at the state and local levels where we took action and then engaged in healthy competition about who should get credit. In Congress it’s too often a story of inaction and then an unproductive competition over who should be blamed for nothing getting done, politics as usual. I pray that the engaged activism of our citizens has brought us to a new moment that will compel us to act in ways large and small in accord with the equality ideal that we profess to believe. This bill is a test of our resolve. And I urge my colleagues to meet the moment so that we can look our young people in their faces and tell them that we truly heard them. And with that Madam president, I yield the floor. You believe in an invisible god, and dismiss people who say they are trans? Really? |
| June 17th, 2020 at 9:20:00 PM permalink | |
| Mission146 Administrator Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 23 Posts: 4147 |
I would totally agree with that, so then you make it so that it's not even a possibility. You could even make a few exceptions for outright hate speech or any speech that itself (incitement to riot, etc.) would actually be a crime.
That's how I feel about it. With all of this talk about white privilege and police violence from CKaep, I think he tends to forget that there are people making an extremely small fraction of what he does getting told when they can or can not use the bathroom.
I think the will COULD be there, but not the ability. If there's one thing religious folks can't stand, it's being outnumbered. When you have the ones going out into public to pimp their churches, you can watch them visibly wilt at even the slightest hint of argument; it's actually really funny. Then you get the whole, "The things you are saying are terrible, sir!" How? The only person I'm trying to convince is the one who started trying to convince me first; the others I'm leaving completely alone. Maybe nobody cares where you are. It's when they get you inside that it's a real problem. It really doesn't even matter for most adults, but the whole entire system is in place to brainwash the kids...and I guess to keep as much pressure as possible on the adults they already have. The only way their arguments are in anyway actually convincing is if you're not smart enough to have a contrary opinion already. It's all peer pressure and echo chamber once you get inside. Maybe there aren't essentially any entire towns that are like that anymore, I guess it's possible, but like I said...I think they're mostly on the defensive now. The reign is over.
Maybe, but I have to admit, aside from having read maybe half of the Quran, in total, I don't really know much about them. I don't see them as being any kind of a threat at all in this country, and if they ever do achieve any societal changing level of power here, it'll be long after I'm dead.
It's a good term. That's pretty much exactly what it is. I'd say they might end up being worse than religion has been in the recent history of this country, but not worse than religion has ever been historically. At least they're not going around actually killing folks. Can you imagine being some random plumber who gets socially martyred for making a semi-political joke on Facebook without the 27 necessary precisely-worded qualifiers? At least all the Christians would do is tell you that you're evil and going to hell...in most cases.
I don't know any, but I could count my unrelated non-forum friends on one hand and have a few fingers left. I think it's that way with a lot of people, or at least, was. I think social media provides a degree of separation...even for the Far Left doing what we were talking about earlier, that it's almost like you're doing that thing to a concept of a person rather than an actual person. What I mean is that the person is bombarding someone's employer with phone calls to report what a bad person they have working for them, but they've never actually met that person, nor have they been to the building owned/operated by the employer....might never have been to the state. They're making the concept of that person worse off, and it's so much easier, because they don't even have to see the consequences or interact with them after the fact. Meantime, they might well strike up a perfectly happy casual conversation with that same person in the checkout line of the grocery store, or something.
That's reasonable in terms of direct pay. I still want to know what private job they are comparing it to.
Yeah, when it comes to the benefits it's the tuition assistance I was saying is absolutely ridiculous. National Guard, too. I think the appropriate amount is something more along the lines of $0.00. Why should the Federal Government offer a better combo pay/benefits package than most of your 1-2 day/month jobs are going to be able/willing to offer doing anything else? AND THEN...they have the audacity to compare their pay/benefits to private sector employment...okay...why is the Government competing with private sector for part-time employees? I don't hold it against you. I don't even really know what you do. I just think the whole entire structure of it is a pointless waste of money. I don't know what the insurance is all about, but even any access to insurance at all is better than what many part-time employees get elsewhere---which is no insurance through that employer whatsoever. I mean, your whole entire job is essentially socialized. It's paid for by the taxpayer. The taxpayer is paying for you to have a better part-time job than they do...unless they want to also do that. Not to mention all the friggin' TV ads that the taxpayer is paying for.
Maybe, I don't know much about it.
No, there aren't. We can certainly try and fail, though. "War is the remedy that our enemies have chosen..let us give them all they want." William T. Sherman |