The Gay Thread

Quote: ams288

This is all true.

Luckily the anti-LGBT people are closer to death than the younger non-bigots.

+1

Quote: Mission146

I don't remember your top paragraph happening whatsoever.

That is because you are not old enough to remember before it and have seen the difference. We once had the same conversation about making heroes out of single mothers starting in the 1980s. It would be similar to not realizing how much anti-smoking was pushed for those of us born after about 1966. But one example is in the 1990s the gay lobby moved to have the books "Heather Has Two Mommies" and "Daddy's Roommate" as reading in the lowest grades. That is just one example.

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If you want to know what really got me on the LGB side (which I wouldn't have even known to call it that), circa the 90's, it was the church.

That's right. I saw how the church talked about gay people. I saw how the church discussed how they would burn in Hell, for all eternity, unless they got saved and repented to Jesus. I saw the anger, hate and resentment in their eyes-firsthand. Hate for what reason? None.

Which church was this? I had 8 years of Catholic school and in those years I do not think teachers mentioned gays at all more than 3 times if that. In probably 700 masses I do not remember gays being mentioned once. In conversations with priests I do not remember gays being mentioned at all, ever.

If the school did mention them it was to tell us to be alert for gays who preyed on younger boys, an ironic thing given the gay priest abuse of the time.*

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I saw how all of the church kids would yell, "Faggot," and throw things at other kids in the school just because those kids were a little bit weird and also too small to be a physical threat to the church bullies.

This is hardly limited to "church kids." Boys calling weaker boys "faggot" happened everywhere.

<snip for space>

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So many hateful, bigoted and intolerant people. Even if they aren't that, then there is a great chance they will be hypocrites/frauds, if not both. Everyone there who is not a hateful, bigoted, intolerant, fraudulent or hypocritical person simply chooses to pretend that those people aren't there.

Everything is fine. Nothing to see here.

And, that's why I accept gay people. I accept them because, evidently, Christ does not. At least, Christ's 'people' don't.

I want to be better than Christ's people in that way.

The gay movement is the most bigoted, intolerant, hateful movement out there at the moment. If you are not with them they will try to destroy you. They did it to the CEO of Mozilla. They tried it with Chick-Fil-A. None of them did anything harmful to gays, they were just not with their agenda 100%. You want to support a movement like that, your choice.

I hate to break it to you, but it is not "the church." Gays have been on the fringes of every society out there until the past 30 years or so. Aversion to homosexuality is natural. You do not see it today because of the indoctrination. The church only picked it up because human nature never changes. It was the same back then. I can assure you the church picking it up was because the same problems were happening 3000 years ago with it as there are today. Same gay pick-up spots then as now. Today it just might be an area of he park or the rest area off the interstate. Back then different place but same idea. Today it was abuse by gay priests and BSA leaders. Back then it was some other gay male in a similar position. So the condemning of it got picked up.

See, if it was not already a problem then "the church" would not have picked up on it because people would not have followed.

Quote: AZDuffman

Aversion to homosexuality is natural. ]

Aversion to a severely mangled survivor of an accident might initially be natural but that's a sad excuse for any normal person to be unable to eventually accept them for who they are.

Aversion to men who believe there are no straight pedophiles is also natural.

Hence the fact that most of them haven’t been laid since the Reagan admin.

Quote: AZDuffman

That is because you are not old enough to remember before it and have seen the difference. We once had the same conversation about making heroes out of single mothers starting in the 1980s. It would be similar to not realizing how much anti-smoking was pushed for those of us born after about 1966. But one example is in the 1990s the gay lobby moved to have the books "Heather Has Two Mommies" and "Daddy's Roommate" as reading in the lowest grades. That is just one example.

Did we? I don't remember that.

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Which church was this? I had 8 years of Catholic school and in those years I do not think teachers mentioned gays at all more than 3 times if that. In probably 700 masses I do not remember gays being mentioned once. In conversations with priests I do not remember gays being mentioned at all, ever.

Catholics tend to be more, 'Live and let live,' in terms of their philosophy. The three denominations that I spent any significant amount of time in (we'll say attended 50+ times) are Baptist, Apostolic and Church of God. The events I am referring to happened in the Church of God; that location rebranded long after and is no longer a Church of God. The Baptists were the whole hellfire and brimstone thing. I don't recall actually knowing that anyone did anything awful during my time there, but it did turn out (I found out years later) that the Reverend, or whatever he would be called, had been molesting his daughter.

The Apostolic Church basically believes in the indentured servitude of women. Very old school social belief system. In other ways, they're basically Amish...no makeup, women aren't supposed to wear pants, women aren't supposed to cut their hair, no jewelry, etc...you'd probably like it there.

Anyway, I'm not going to give street addresses, or anything. Also, I just looked---that specific Baptist Church doesn't exist anymore. I don't know what's there now. There is a Baptist Church in that town, but it's a different name and location.

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If the school did mention them it was to tell us to be alert for gays who preyed on younger boys, an ironic thing given the gay priest abuse of the time.*

Yeah, these things happen both within and without. Church is not the answer. Conformity has never solved anything; congregants are merely marks.

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This is hardly limited to "church kids." Boys calling weaker boys "faggot" happened everywhere.

<snip for space>

I agree, but the point is that religious upbringings don't effectuate anything because they don't end up being better people, on balance, than anyone else does. Everyone is so worried about media influencing this generation, but childhood influence is clearly insufficient to effectuate uniform results, or you wouldn't have gay people now and everyone would be religious.

Actually, I think you'd probably end up with more right-leaning people by indoctrinating them to be leftists. It seems like indoctrination results in one of two things: Someone who rebels against that by doing the opposite, or, mindless automatons; I think more the former than latter, though.

You say, "We gave them an inch," I say the churches and church congregants (collectively) tried to exact too much social control and it backfired. It really doesn't matter as the difference in semantics in describing the cause does not change its effect. Either way, the faith lost, so I'm satisfied. The war is all but over. Would I choose this or conformity based on peer pressure and a fairy tale in the sky? I'd choose this. At least it's interesting to watch.

Quote:

The gay movement is the most bigoted, intolerant, hateful movement out there at the moment. If you are not with them they will try to destroy you. They did it to the CEO of Mozilla. They tried it with Chick-Fil-A. None of them did anything harmful to gays, they were just not with their agenda 100%. You want to support a movement like that, your choice.

I hate to break it to you, but it is not "the church." Gays have been on the fringes of every society out there until the past 30 years or so. Aversion to homosexuality is natural. You do not see it today because of the indoctrination. The church only picked it up because human nature never changes. It was the same back then. I can assure you the church picking it up was because the same problems were happening 3000 years ago with it as there are today. Same gay pick-up spots then as now. Today it just might be an area of he park or the rest area off the interstate. Back then different place but same idea. Today it was abuse by gay priests and BSA leaders. Back then it was some other gay male in a similar position. So the condemning of it got picked up.

See, if it was not already a problem then "the church" would not have picked up on it because people would not have followed.

Huh? I don't support anything. I don't go to rallies or parades; I don't donate any money; I just vote for equality and promote general equality under the law when such discussions come up. I accept that they are gay and simply don't care about them beyond that. If you want to call it, 'Support,' you can. I don't care about gay people any more or any less than I care about most individuals, which is to say, not at all.

I'm not averse to homosexuality; I'm averse to a guy putting his peepee up my butt. I can be averse to the latter without being averse to the former; the two have nothing to do with each other. As long as no gay guys are trying to stick it in me, and none of them have (I think I've been hit on once, and I just told him I am absolutely not gay whatsoever and that was the end of that) why should I care where they do stick it?

If not caring about what other people do is a product of being indoctrinated, then I am happy to be indoctrinated. Also, in what world is that indoctrination and religion is not? You're not even trying anymore.

What's old is new again.

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"Armed with dangerous tropes from over 50 years ago, where gay and trans people are labeled as ‘groomers’ who are a danger to children, wily politicians such as Gov. Ron DeSantis of Florida began a campaign to drive us out, to erase our families and identities in education, in library books, and in our own communities,"
-George Takei

Quote: rxwine

What's old is new again.

You are really quoting a guy who was afraid to take the Enterprise to Warp 9? And could barely launch a photon torpedo?

Quote: rxwine

What's old is new again.

Few things have had more of a positive impact on the LGBT community in the past few years than watching DeSantis’s absolute disaster of a campaign. We are enjoying his schadenfreude IMMENSELY.

He is polling at 5% among GOP voters under 55. Maybe what appeals to the old crazies in The Villages doesn’t translate well to other states?

Not to mention he’s just an effing weirdo:

Quote: SOOPOO

You are really quoting a guy who was afraid to take the Enterprise to Warp 9? And could barely launch a photon torpedo?

Scottie yelling "Captain, she can't take any more!" made them all nervous. Nobody really enjoys turbulence on a flight.

Quote: ams288

Few things have had more of a positive impact on the LGBT community in the past few years than watching DeSantis’s absolute disaster of a campaign. We are enjoying his schadenfreude IMMENSELY.

He is polling at 5% among GOP voters under 55. Maybe what appeals to the old crazies in The Villages doesn’t translate well to other states?

Not to mention he’s just an effing weirdo:

I know that gif has some splicing probably, but he really does look like he's straining to replicate some natural human emotion.