How To Survive: An elevated shooter if you are in an outdoor crowd

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October 3rd, 2017 at 7:03:14 PM permalink
rxwine
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 188
Posts: 18633
Echoing among nearby high buildings I believe makes it hard to pin an exact location unless you had some practice at it.
You believe in an invisible god, and dismiss people who say they are trans? Really?
October 3rd, 2017 at 7:30:56 PM permalink
kenarman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 14
Posts: 4470
Quote: Face
I'll do my best to explain. I'll assume you have at least a basic level of understanding where guns are con... ahhh s#$%. Canadian.

Ok, from the top, then ;)

j/k. I assume by now every single person here knows how a semi-auto works. If not, I'll be happy to review.

Bump fire.
I'm a righty. Imagine I'm holding a rifle. My right hand is on the action, finger on the trigger guard, and I'm holding the rifle low near my hip. My left is up on the barrel out in front of me. Typical "skulking through the jungle" stance, like Forrest Gump. To bump fire, I would hold my right hand in the fire position, wrapped around the action with finger on the trigger, and I'd FREEZE IT. Make my hand as stiff as could be. With my LEFT hand, the one up on the barrel, I would pull the entire gun forward, allowing the stock to slide through my "frozen" hand and essentially "pull" the gun into my trigger finger. This would cause the gun to fire. Firing produces a recoil, which pushes the entire gun back just enough to clear your "frozen" finger and reset the trigger, and your constant forward "pull' with your off hand immediately brings the trigger right back to you and fires again. Repeat until you burn up 30 rds. Which, for my M4, takes fractions of one second. Brrrrt. There's $28 in a field.

Bump stocks are just a stock that does this for you. The stock is like a shock absorber with no gas, it slides in and out of itself with no resistance. It also has a fake trigger you can wrap your finger around to ensure it's in the proper position. It takes the practice out of bump firing as you don't have to train "freezing" your hand. You can hold on tight as you like and just pull forward. Brrrrt.


Thanks for the explanation Face. I think I almost understand it now. Still amazed that you could tell what it was from a few seconds of audio.
"but if you make yourselves sheep, the wolves will eat you." Benjamin Franklin
October 3rd, 2017 at 7:57:57 PM permalink
Wizard
Administrator
Member since: Oct 23, 2012
Threads: 239
Posts: 6095
Quote: rxwine
Echoing among nearby high buildings I believe makes it hard to pin an exact location unless you had some practice at it.


I was just in Cincinnati and the Reds did a fireworks show after the game. It was surreal listening to the show in downtown Cincy, as the sound echoed off the buildings. Reminded me of the bank robbery shootout in Heat. I guess my point is that it would be hard to identify where the shots were coming from my sound alone in that situation.
Knowledge is Good -- Emil Faber
October 4th, 2017 at 1:04:02 AM permalink
Fleastiff
Member since: Oct 27, 2012
Threads: 62
Posts: 7831
It might be a question of randomness.

Can the location of the shooter be determined? Is lying in the open going to help on the theory he won't aim at a corpse but its hard to know if he is actually aiming at anything other than "the crowd". Is hard cover available? Is soft cover nearby? He can shoot at a tent but not at the people inside the tent but its hard to know if he is a sniper or a "spray and pray" type shooter. Its likely stampedes can cause injury if not death. Get under a corpse? Find a beautiful young girl?
Think of the Baltic ferry sinkings wherein there were knifepoint lootings by thugs? I don't know if anyone mimed being a corpse during Texas Tower but that was someone who aimed his shots.
October 4th, 2017 at 1:31:06 AM permalink
rxwine
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 188
Posts: 18633
Just have to face it, a field with little cover is usually the worst place for an army --- and no reason to be better with any other group.

Battles like that are so exposed (like landing at Normandy) you just have to have lots and lots of people willing to take lead and become a corpse, so a few living can still make it in.

Fortunately this was only one shooter, Good thing he didn't have multiple friends.

I don't think the guy left out much for the success of his plan. Perhaps he could have created an alternative disaster prior to his spree to start tying up emergency services. Mostly he seemed to do everything right to be wrong. Hard to believe anyone could think he was a member of ISIS. He's be one of their brightest, that's for sure.
You believe in an invisible god, and dismiss people who say they are trans? Really?
October 4th, 2017 at 3:42:32 AM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 135
Posts: 18136
Big case of "It Depends" here. What kind of crowd and what kind of shooter.

In the case of the Mandalay shooter, falling to the ground would probably get you trampled. Standing still would likely get you knocked down and trampled. Best case would probably be to go with the flow of the crowd, picking an exit out of the area of fire as your goal. In that big a crowd with one shooter, chances are you will not be hit, but if your number comes up then your number comes up.

If it were several shooters and an organized cross-fire, same thing, but you really have problems. Just make it a good policy to know where an exit is. If the guy is really hidden, like this time, it might go on for 15-45 minutes, though less than 30 is a better guess.

Now, if you are in a more open area with someone using better sniper tactics, i.e.: actually aiming, you might be better to fall to the ground. It could be the person is aiming selectively (e.g.: a SJW just picking off white males) and not aiming at you. In any case, a target lying on the ground is harder to hit unless you have a really good and tall angle, meaning the closer to 90 degrees the better. If you are in that situation and are deciding to run, run zig-zag, zigging right after you hear the shot, assuming you can think to do that.
The President is a fink.
October 4th, 2017 at 7:04:27 AM permalink
Ayecarumba
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 89
Posts: 1744
Since the rapid bursts indicate spraying rather than selective targeting, is your situation akin to deciding what to do if one cloud passes over the crowd and a light drizzle of rain starts to fall? Everyone will seek cover, but will you collide with more raindrops by moving faster and running into some of them, or by moving slower, but being exposed for a longer period of time?
October 4th, 2017 at 7:36:26 AM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 346
Posts: 12545
Quote: rxwine
Should have brought my Kevlar backpack plate to put over my head. Or a shovel.


Don't get out fo the armored personnel carrier.
Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER
October 4th, 2017 at 8:04:09 AM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 135
Posts: 18136
Quote: Ayecarumba
Since the rapid bursts indicate spraying rather than selective targeting, is your situation akin to deciding what to do if one cloud passes over the crowd and a light drizzle of rain starts to fall? Everyone will seek cover, but will you collide with more raindrops by moving faster and running into some of them, or by moving slower, but being exposed for a longer period of time?


Not sure. My thinking is you cannot really defend yourself against the bullet spray, but you can try to avoid being crushed in a stampede. In almost any case, the kill box will be relatively small, so get out of it safely as possible.
The President is a fink.
October 4th, 2017 at 8:39:07 AM permalink
Ayecarumba
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 89
Posts: 1744
Quote: AZDuffman
Not sure. My thinking is you cannot really defend yourself against the bullet spray, but you can try to avoid being crushed in a stampede. In almost any case, the kill box will be relatively small, so get out of it safely as possible.


In Las Vegas, were any of the victims trampled? In the bit of the press conference with the Coroner I caught yesterday, he was not prepared to confirm c.o.d. for anyone.
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