Men skipping college

You know who agrees with you that broader education is a waste?

ISIS.

Quote: rxwine

If we let kids only learn what they want, it'd be as bad as people who only take in news by its appeal.

If you think enough people will become knowledgeable without prodding, you really need to point out where this actually works to any extent. That's in regard to people only learning what interests them.

We are not talking about "kids." We are talking about young adults in college. The idea is to get qualified for a job, and to charge an extra $20,000 or so for a bunch of courses unrelated is simply taking advantage of them.

Quote: rxwine

You know who agrees with you that broader education is a waste?

ISIS.

And?

Really, try to imagine how much I care if ISIS has the same position. Know what ISIS doesn't have? A bunch of unemployable 30 year olds carrying $50,000 in debt for an education that is not serving them to get employed.

Quote: rxwine

So, you don't believe education is also for making people informed in areas they normally have no interest in and wouldn't pursue otherwise?

I believe the first twelve years of school cover all of the basics that most people need. Even still, this internet thing has lots of information about almost everything.

I think the most important part of going to college for me was moving away from home and being put in a situation where I knew nobody. It was an important social experiment that I think everybody should try. In our family the rule was you must go at least 500 miles away from home and it was encouraged that you went to a school where you didn't know anyone.

Quote: DRich

I believe the first twelve years of school cover all of the basics that most people need. Even still, this internet thing has lots of information about almost everything.

I think the most important part of going to college for me was moving away from home and being put in a situation where I knew nobody. It was an important social experiment that I think everybody should try. In our family the rule was you must go at least 500 miles away from home and it was encouraged that you went to a school where you didn't know anyone.

I agree with you that for me it was simply the attending of college was important in learning independence and giving me the life skills (not job specific skills) to be successful for the rest of my life. I have two questions about this benefit though. Could I not learn these skills simply by moving away from home and getting a job? This percentage may not be true in the US but Canadian students only pay about 1/3 the cost of their education. Is this a good investment for society or could we have a better return with a different method of making our youth ready for the world?

Quote: DRich

I believe the first twelve years of school cover all of the basics that most people need. Even still, this internet thing has lots of information about almost everything.

EXACTLY! You can never learn more for free than you can now. As long as you watch more than dancing cat videos, of course.

Quote:

I think the most important part of going to college for me was moving away from home and being put in a situation where I knew nobody. It was an important social experiment that I think everybody should try. In our family the rule was you must go at least 500 miles away from home and it was encouraged that you went to a school where you didn't know anyone.

Quote: kenarman

I agree with you that for me it was simply the attending of college was important in learning independence and giving me the life skills (not job specific skills) to be successful for the rest of my life. I have two questions about this benefit though. Could I not learn these skills simply by moving away from home and getting a job? This percentage may not be true in the US but Canadian students only pay about 1/3 the cost of their education. Is this a good investment for society or could we have a better return with a different method of making our youth ready for the world?

On one hand, I am glad I did 3 semesters near home on the cheap. I might not have made it thru without the "reset" of GPA at my transfer. Saved me possibly getting in trouble for underage drinking as well. OTOH, I always noticed a way more maturity with people who went away to school or the military. It is like they were thrown into the deep end of the pool while those who stayed home stayed in the kiddie pool. You came back having seen and done all kinds of things while they were working part time same place as when you left.

Really I think we would be better off as a nation if after high school everyone, or at least all the men, went away for some time. Like the army used to do. It makes you grow up or else.

So, what are these great countries without the "useless" formal higher education?

Maybe we should evolve towards only 12th grade education. I didn't know this was advancing nations.

Let's have some examples of where we should be headed?

Quote: rxwine

So, what are these great countries without the "useless" formal higher education?

Maybe we should evolve towards only 12th grade education. I didn't know this was advancing nations.

Let's have some examples of where we should be headed?

USA pre-1960s. Somehow we did fine when more people learned a trade or had just the basic education that the jobs demanded. Back then, there were also few useless degrees like gender/minority studies.

Seriously, why do we have this student loan crisis if students are getting that great education that is setting them up for the job market?

Education is an industry like any other. It's product is advertised with all the good and bad connotations that the term "advertised" implies. The way that an education factory grows is to put more "bums on seats" which provides more income to grow the factory and justify higher salaries for those employed by the factory. Everybody in the factory realizes this and doesn't want to break from the company line. This leads to the grade inflation rampant in the colleges today because who would want to attend an inferior college The 'value of education' statistics are researched and created by those that are likely an employee of said factory and if not an employee are a product of that factory. Graduates are not going to admit they might have made a mistake when they chose college by straying from the company line of education is good since no one likes to admit any important errors they have made along the journey of life. These errors in our society today are almost always blamed on someone else or on the disadvantaged start that the person had to begin with.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-09-27/six-figure-pensions-university-california-teachers-surge-60-2012 Teachers pensions will still need to be funded. Right along with cops and fire fighters.

Quote: rxwine

Let's have some examples of where we should be headed?

Finland's system. Every HS graduate is automatically admitted to University but is not required to enroll unless he wants to.
Since salaries are pretty much the same no matter what job you have, no one tends to enter any career 'for the money', they major in what they love to do in the workplace.

In the USA all these proprietary schools try to recruit everyone and then grant them virtually meaningless degrees.