refusing to accept cash

Quote: Evenbob

I learned later this is a common scam. There are no fences for thefts anymore, whole neighborhoods are the fence for stolen property.

I wonder if the cash available to citizens will have an effect on this type of scamming.

I think it might have an effect, only because Swedes now use smartphone apps for person to person transfer of money. In this case, I would think you would want to use cash, because if you have dozens of transfers with your neighbors for a few hundred dollars, it would look suspicious.


Although code breaking is given a lot of attention (obviously) sometimes intelligence is derived simply by the amount of communications or of cash transfers.

Cashless works if you can use cards... And Walmart have just refused to take Visa in Canada...

Quote: TheCesspit

Cashless works if you can use cards... And Walmart have just refused to take Visa in Canada...

I am all for Walmart standing up to Visa. Even though they likely have other reasons since their are tied-in with MasterCard the credit card companies are hammering the businesses. Consumers all carry premium cards now with cash back or other perks. The credit card company adds the cost of the cash back onto the fee they charge the merchant. The small merchants with no leveridge pay large basic fees plus the additional fee charged for the premium card.

I would be happy to see the premium cards disappear since I don't use them and have to help pay for them. Old farts don't use credit anymore.

The Bank for International Settlement (BIS) just released their summary for the end of 2015 a few weeks ago.

Banknotes and coins per capita at end of 2015 in USD - source BIS
$113 South Africa
$195 India
$282 Brazil
$458 Turkey
$599 Mexico
$800 Russia
$872 Sweden
$1,460 Korea
$1,583 United Kingdom
$1,641 Canada
$1,708 Saudi Arabia
$2,320 Australia
$3,571 Euro area
$4,441 United States
$4,911 Singapore
$6,550 Hong Kong SAR
$6,739 Japan
$9,213 Switzerland

Sweden basically had more cash than USA up until 1991 when the 10,000SEK (> $2000) banknote was declared invalid. After the formal vote to essentially get out of adopting the Euro (based on a loophole in the agreement), the government has been declaring large value banknotes invalid and replacing them with smaller numbers. Sweden has been dropping their cash per person by roughly an average of $20 a month throughout 2016.

Every central bank says they produce enough cash to meet "demand", but I personally think that is a very complex statement.

This paper on electronic currency is from 2002, but it brings up some basic points.
https://www.kentlaw.iit.edu/Documents/Academic%20Programs/Honors%20Scholars/2002/Jon-Neuleib-paper.pdf
Legal Tender: Towards Government Backing of Electronic Currency

Electronic Currency in the paper refers to a potential government backed electronic transfers patterned after physical cash. Unlike credit transactions "electronic currency" would be (1) anonymous, and (2) backed by government and not private institutions and (3) as universally accepted as banknotes and coins.

Physical bitcoins have been created for some time.


Do you think the US government will issue electronic currency in even small amounts within the next five years?

With just four hours notice India declared that the 500 and 1000 rupee note would be invalid. These notes represent 86% of the cash supply in the country. The current exchange rate is 1,000 INR = $14.77 and the circulation level of these two denomination of notes is roughly 10,000 INR per capita.

A total of 4,500 INR worth $66 can be exchanged for new notes, but the rest of the money must be deposited in bank accounts by the end of December. Any deposit above 250,000INR=$3700 will automatically be investigated by tax authorities.

India is overwhelmingly a cash economy, with 90% of all transactions taking place in cash. Because so much business is done in cash, very few people pay tax on the money they earn. According to figures published by the government earlier this year, in 2013 only 1% of the population paid any income tax at all.

With so much cash and so little in the way of a "trail" it is not too surprising that the man paying 74MM Dollars for his daughter's wedding is a former government official accused of corruption.

Quote: Fleastiff

With so much cash...

Well it's not a lot of cash by our standards. At the end of 2015
India was circulating $74 per capita in their largest banknote 1000 INR and $92 in 500 INR banknotes.
Mexico was circulating $40 per capita in their largest banknote 1000 MXN and $405 in 500 MXN banknotes.
USA was circulating $249 per capita in their 2nd largest banknote, the $50 and $534 in $20 banknotes.

But many countries seem concerned with the unrestricted nature of cash. Canada stopped printing the CAD$1000 banknote in 2000, Singapore just stopped printing the SGD$10,000 banknote, European Central Bank is not going to renew their 500EUR banknote, Sweden stopped printing their 10,000kr banknote in 1991, and has reduced circulation of their 1000kr banknote by over 90% in recent years. The Bank of England very pointedly did not announce a date for converting their 50GBP banknote to polymer leading to widespread speculation that they are considering discontinuing it in a few years.

Mexico began circulating it's 1000 peso banknote in November 2004, but it is still circulating far below one note per capita after 12 years. The government seems to have lost the desire to circulate more of these notes, presumably because they will aid the underground economy.

Japan has upped production quantities of the 10,000Yen banknote probably because the threat of negative interest rates means more and more people are keeping savings in cash but many have speculated that in order for negative interest rates to work they will have to reduce the amount of cash available.

Quote: Pacomartin

Mexico began circulating it's 1000 peso banknote in November 2004, but it is still circulating far below one note per capita after 12 years. The government seems to have lost the desire to circulate more of these notes, presumably because they will aid the underground economy.

Maybe that's a factor, but the main reason is that few businesses, above or below grand, ever take them. Everyone claims they can't make change for that note.

I think I've told this story before. I once tried to pay for something amounting to abt. 780 pesos with a 1,000 note. The cashier claimed she had no change. I then gave her two 500 notes and for that she magically could make change.

Quote: Nareed

Maybe that's a factor, but the main reason is that few businesses, above or below grand, ever take them. Everyone claims they can't make change for that note.

I think that is very common in many countries to be afraid of the new large denomination banknote. The first 50GBP banknote in Britain was circulated for 15 years from Mar 20, 1981 until Sep 20, 1996 and they barely exceeded one banknote per capita. They were almost impossible to spend outside of London where most businesses refused to accept them. Even today the 20GBP banknote is far more common than the 50GBP banknote. Even today rumors are common that the banknote won't survive beyond it's 40th birthday, as the government will cease their circulation as a crime control measure.

But the peso has lost at least half it's value in 12 years. Logically you would expect the 1000MXN note to be more common, just as the 500MXN banknote replaced the 200MXN banknote.

Mexico is circulating banknotes and coins at roughly 10,000 pesos per capita. Its probably a little different than most countries in that a lot of the underground economy is using dollars.