Hey FrGamble!

Bob I feel like you should probably be suspended for such an egregious editing of my quote. That is low.

Quote: Evenbob

And you are making it up as you
go along because there are no
facts to work with.

- Jesus Christ taught and died by Crucifixion and His disciples experienced His bodily Resurrection for which they all gave their lives, liberty, and everything to spread the Good News.
- Others experienced the same love and hope of the Living Lord Jesus who had conquered sin and death so that even after over three centuries of persecution by religious leaders and the might of Rome the faith continued to spread to this very day.
- Christianity is the largest religion in the world and has shaped and formed Western culture and the whole world in ways nothing else ever could or will.

These are all things that are facts, I dare you to deny any of them.

Quote:

Originally made up, and not that
long ago.

As long ago as there was humanity.

Quote:

something he knew nothing
about as it hadn't been invented
yet. This is why Xtianity is a myth
and not reality, none of it make
when examined.

Are you talking about the words, "Original Sin" or are you talking about the concept that we struggle to do what we know we should and are tempted to do the things we know we shouldn't? If you are talking about those English words, you are right Jesus didn't know them. If you are talking about the concept well then you are just being silly because everyone knows that. The idea of original sin begins at the beginning, I mean you know that.

Christianity is the truth because I believe it answers the primordial or original question every single human being asks themselves, every religion strives to answer, and every culture and government wrestles with - why do we do evil things and find it so hard at times to do the good? And it's follow up question; what are we to do about it?

Quote: FrGamble

Bob I feel like you should probably be suspended for such an egregious editing of my quote. That is low.



- Jesus Christ taught and died by Crucifixion and His disciples experienced His bodily Resurrection for which they all gave their lives, liberty, and everything to spread the Good News.
- Others experienced the same love and hope of the Living Lord Jesus who had conquered sin and death so that even after over three centuries of persecution by religious leaders and the might of Rome the faith continued to spread to this very day.
- Christianity is the largest religion in the world and has shaped and formed Western culture and the whole world in ways nothing else ever could or will.

These are all things that are facts, I dare you to deny any of them.




As long ago as there was humanity.



Are you talking about the words, "Original Sin" or are you talking about the concept that we struggle to do what we know we should and are tempted to do the things we know we shouldn't? If you are talking about those English words, you are right Jesus didn't know them. If you are talking about the concept well then you are just being silly because everyone knows that. The idea of original sin begins at the beginning, I mean you know that.

Christianity is the truth because I believe it answers the primordial or original question every single human being asks themselves, every religion strives to answer, and every culture and government wrestles with - why do we do evil things and find it so hard at times to do the good? And it's follow up question; what are we to do about it?

I do not know if anyone that has ever asked themselves that question nor do I believe it is the primordial question - I believe mankind's eternal question is "Why are we here" not, why do we do evil -- evil is a human construct - look at the animal kingdom - animals kill one another over food and the ability to mate - are those evil acts?

Quote: FrGamble

Bob I feel like you should probably be suspended for such an egregious editing of my quote. That is low.

It was clever, not low. It was a
way of saying the only
substance in the quote
was what I posted.

Quote:

and His disciples experienced His bodily Resurrection..
These are all things that are facts, I dare you to deny any of them.

You're confusing myth with facts
again. There is no proof Jesus was
resurrected, none. There is nobody
in the NT who witnessed the risen
Jesus, who actually saw and spoke
to him. All the stories are anecdotal,
and worthless. There is zero
contemporaneous documentation
for Jesus rising from the dead and
doing anything with anybody.

Quote:

Are you talking about the words, "Original Sin"

o·rig·i·nal sin
sin held to be inherited from Adam in consequence of the Fall

That's the definition of original sin,
the noose hanging over all our
heads at birth, supposedly. This
sin is what the death of Jesus
saved us from. All other sins pale
beside the whopper of original
sin and Jesus had no idea he was
dying for something that hadn't
been invented yet. You should
never takes myths at face value,
you'll always be disappointed.

Quote:

why do we do evil things and find it so hard at times to do the good?

You mention this a lot and it's
nonsense. Most people don't
look at things they do as evil
or good and struggle with it.
They just do what they want
and don't think about it. Do
you really think a drug addict
robbing a gas station ponders
the good or evil of it? Or a bully
making fun of a little kid, or a
woman stealing office supplies
from work? They don't struggle
with good or evil, they just don't
want to get caught.

Religion is an intellectual world
that exists outside the real world.
Good and evil are constructs,
concepts that don't exist in the
universe outside our minds.

Quote: Evenbob

It was low.

Yes it was.

In regards to the facts they are what they are. You can interpret them in different ways to suit you, but you cannot deny the fact that Jesus existed died and changed the world after His death. You can't dispute this and you think all this happened based on a false myth. I could never have the faith to be an atheist nor be as illogical as you.

Quote: FrGamble

you cannot deny the fact that Jesus existed died and changed the world after His death..

So did Buddha. So did Mohammad. They
changed the world every bit as much as
Jesus did. You don't make the point you
think you're making by mentioning how
the Jesus cult changed the world. It wasn't
the first and wasn't the last to do that.

BTW, it took me 20min to write that
long post. If I knew your reply would
be a paragraph long I wouldn't
have bothered.

Quote: Evenbob

So did Buddha. So did Mohammad. They
changed the world every bit as much as
Jesus did. You don't make the point you
think you're making by mentioning how
the Jesus cult changed the world. It wasn't
the first and wasn't the last to do that.

BTW, it took me 20min to write that
long post. If I knew your reply would
be a paragraph long I wouldn't
have bothered.

The point to be made is that it is a fact that Jesus Christ continues to impact our world in ways no one ever has or ever will. The way you explain this fact is it is because a small rag tag group of people made up a story that He rose from the dead and spread it. Even in the face of great persecution it spread and eventually the Roman Empire itself and then the world began to believe that Jesus Christ is God. All because of a made up story about a man who preached for 3 years and was crucified. Is that really the story you are going with? Come on Bob you are smarter than that. There has to be something more than a made up story about a crucified travelling preacher? You and I both know this and I know it personally. So could you and everyone. He desires you to know Him, He loves you. Put down your hate and your twisted thinking and encounter the living Lord who changed the world and will change you too.

In regards to you recent long post. What am I supposed to say to a man who is convinced that no one in the NT saw the Risen Lord or that original sin was invented or that bullies don't think about the evil they do? I mean it is really hard to argue or respond to such statements. I often think you are joking about some such things.

Quote: aceofspades

I do not know if anyone that has ever asked themselves that question nor do I believe it is the primordial question - I believe mankind's eternal question is "Why are we here" not, why do we do evil -- evil is a human construct - look at the animal kingdom - animals kill one another over food and the ability to mate - are those evil acts?

"Why are we here?" is another big question that we should all answer.

Evil is not a human construct. Murder, which I am pretty sure animals do not commit is evil. Basically anything that goes against reason is bad and reason also is not something we constructed. Now for sure there are many ways that people reason, one glance at Evenbob and I will show you that. This difference in reasoning is what leads to some people thinking abortion is evil and some who think of it as just another medical procedure. However, reason will clearly say one of those ideas is true and they both cannot be.

You could look at it as first principles. Those determine just about everything in your life. It begins with your conception of God? This is a big answer we all must answer. It determines if life is just accidental or with purpose, is there meaning to be found, is there a goal or order that guides us, etc. Then we can ask who are human beings and who am I? Do we have rights that are ours not from government or society? Is there a dignity to every human person that deserves to be respected and honored? Or am I and everyone else just an animal? Etc. These first principles also shape our morality.

Quote: FrGamble

There has to be something more than a made up story about a crucified travelling preacher[

Why does there have to be more,
so you'll feel better about believing
it? There is no more to it than any
myth. Stories that grow and grow
over time till they take on a life
of their own. I truly feel sorry for
people who say they 'walk' with
Jesus or 'have a relationship' with
Jesus. It means they're on a very
fine line between sanity and mental
illness. Thankfully they have central
places they can gather and be with
others that have the same affliction.

Quote:

who is convinced that no one in the NT saw the Risen Lord or that original sin was invented

Which writer in the NT saw Jesus
after he rose, or even saw his
death on the cross. Every Google
entry I saw say there is no such
writer. And please point out where
in the entire Bible original sin is
mentioned. Not alluded to in some
backhanded way, but actually discussed.
It was such a big deal Jesus died for it,
yet he never mentioned it once. And
you don't find that just a little odd?

Padre - do they teach this in the seminary:


http://www.catholicsupply.com/christmas/stjoe.html

"St. Joseph, the husband of Mary and earthly Father of Jesus Christ, is honored as the patron saint of married couples, families, carpenters and workingmen. March 19, his feast day, is especially celebrated by people of Italian and Polish descent.

Over the years, the tradition arose of St. Joseph having a special power in real estate transactions. European nuns buried a medal with his likeness on property they hoped to aquire for convents. Gradually the medals were replaced with statues and the focus changed from buying to selling.

The statue is buried upside down in the front yard with the feet pointing to heaven. It may face towards the home (or towards the street if you want your neighbor's home to sell!) The location of the statue can vary: by the "For Sale" sign, in a flower pot (popular for condo owners), etc.. As long as you can find it once the home has sold. After the home has sold, the statue should be removed from the ground and given a place of honor in your new home."

Quote: FrGamble

Evil is not a human construct.

Prove it's existence with science, then.
It's an idea, a blurry concept. Because
what's evil for one person can often
he a boon for someone else. It's all
a matter of where you're standing
at the time. A person with a terminal
disease will spend enough on
treatments to make his doctors Mercedes
payment every month. The evil
disease was transformed magically to
a good thing for the doctor and his bank.

Good and evil are one side of the same
coin. You can't have one without an equal
amount of the other because they are
just vague concepts.