In decline.

Quote: Nareed

"And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter." Thomas Jefferson.
That day has come and passed. It's just not as universally believed yet.
.

It's here now for sure, and getting stronger all the
time.

Quote: FrGamble

Why should those few bad priests who did evil things stop me or the vast majority of priests from preaching the Good News?

Who said it should? Our problem is the Church is
in perpetual denial that it's even going on. Sweep
it under the rug, pay off the victims, move the priest
to another parish. Even your reaction was a 'so what'
response. Most priests have an "it's none of your business"
reaction because they are elitists, and what they do is
so far above the concern of the common people.

Quote: FrGamble

Shouldn't a plumber be just as holy, good, and loving as a priest?

He should be whatever he wants to be, how is that
any of our business. This is what drives me nuts
about Christians of all stripes, the constant judgmentalism.
Who the hell are you or I to decide what he should
or should not be? He is what he wants to be, leave him alone.

Quote: Evenbob

Even your reaction was a 'so what'
response.

My response has never nor ever will be a 'so what' response. It is painful beyond belief what my brother priests have done and the damage they have caused to innocent lives and allowed you to use their sins as ammo to hurt all the many good priests and the Church I love.

Quote:

This is what drives me nuts
about Christians of all stripes, the constant judgmentalism.
Who the hell are you or I to decide what he should
or should not be? He is what he wants to be, leave him alone.

I don't know where you are getting judgmentalism from. I want the plumber to be truly happy and fulfilled. I know that the surest way to this happiness is by knowing and loving God in the person of Jesus Christ and by following the commandments of God. If you have another way to find happiness in this life and the next I am all ears. But for a minute think about a person who has found a way to help people and then refuses to do so. That is an evil and sinful act and I will not do so.

Quote: FrGamble

I want the plumber to be truly happy and fulfilled.

I don't want him to be anything, it's not
my business. Nor is it yours. Tend to
who are, and he'll tend to who he is. If
he comes to you for advice, that's
different. If he doesn't, leave him alone.

Quote: Evenbob

I don't want him to be anything,

That is the big difference here isn't it?

Quote: FrGamble

That is the big difference here isn't it?

Christians always want to stick their nose
in everybody's business, right down to
having them confess everything to them
in secret. That's how highly they rank
themselves as the foremost moral arbiters.
Ego on parade.

Bob, aren't you doing the same thing to me by telling me what I should or shouldn't do? Leave me alone and let me save souls and bring happiness and peace and love to those who need or want it.

Quote: FrGamble

Bob, aren't you doing the same thing to me by telling me what I should or shouldn't do? .

Only because you try and interfere with others
lives when it's none of your business. My wife
does it with published sex offenders. She
constantly checks the roster and if any of them
are living in the neighborhood in an apartment
complex, she'll write the complex to let them
know.

I really hate this. These men have been to prison,
they paid their debt to society. She's a Christian,
where the forgiveness part. I see this in most
Christians I know, they hold grudges and are
the least forgiving. Hypocrites.

So you think by me spreading the Good News of Jesus Christ I am interfering with other's lives and then you go and interfere with my life by telling me what to do.

First of all I am not being judgmental, unforgiving, or pushy as I think your experience of Christians has been. I am extending an invitation to an adventure of faith. I'm presenting a way of life that leads to happiness and fulfillment in this life and eternally. Hey, if you can get a better deal than that I say take it and tell me about it.

Quote: FrGamble

I am extending an invitation to an adventure of faith..

Exactly so. It's not based on anything remotely
proven by facts, it's based solely on speculation
and wishful thinking. You are offering an exercise
in the use of imagination. In other words, you're
offering nothing at all.

Faith indeed..