Gigafactory

My understanding is Tesla is in the alternative energy business, and the cars are a means to establishing an economy of scale.

The newest whole house battery can run everything in a small house for a day. A whole house ups.

Quote: Dalex64

My understanding is Tesla is in the alternative energy business, and the cars are a means to establishing an economy of scale.

The newest whole house battery can run everything in a small house for a day. A whole house ups.

That is the thing, though. Cars are incredibly capital intensive and labor intensive as well. So is the gigafactory, Everything they do seems to be huge money-sucks. If money tightens, watch out.

Quote: AZDuffman

On a hybrid car the cost is hidden enough that the average person forgets the math of the payback period.

The Corolla base price for their 2016 model is $17,300 with 30 mpg city. Whether or not it's smart or dumb (financially) to shell out an additional $2,260 for a Prius C ($19,560 with 53 mpg city) is entirely dependent upon how many miles you drive per year and the price of gasoline.

Gas is sort of cheap right now, but it's a lot easier to make up the price difference of a hybrid when gas is $3.50/gallon.

Quote: reno

The Corolla base price for their 2016 model is $17,300 with 30 mpg city. Whether or not it's smart or dumb (financially) to shell out an additional $2,260 for a Prius C ($19,560 with 53 mpg city) is entirely dependent upon how many miles you drive per year and the price of gasoline.

Gas is sort of cheap right now, but it's a lot easier to make up the price difference of a hybrid when gas is $3.50/gallon.

Still the public does not realize it would be better to get far less of a bump on a lower mpg truck than say 20 in a small car.

Well for 100,000 miles
53 mpg ~ 1886.8 gallons
30 mpg ~ 3333.3 gallons
Difference is 1446.5 gallons which is more than $2,260 if gasoline averages over $1.56 per gallon

But beyond this simple mathematics my question is if you are selling identical gas powered and hybrid cars with 100K miles with the same routine maintenance, then which is worth more?

It is a legitimate question as I don't know the answer. As I see ads for Prius hybrid batteries for over $1000 , I suspect the gasoline powered vehicle will resale at a higher price.

Quote: AZDuffman

So is the gigafactory, Everything they do seems to be huge money-sucks.

Do you see Panasonic as a victim who was conned by Tesla? Or is Panasonic in on the con?

"We are seeing strong demand for EV (batteries) not just from Tesla but various other automakers," said Panasonic Chief Executive Kazuhiro Tsuga at an earnings briefing. "We see the rechargeable battery business as the biggest growth driver. So we are aggressively making upfront and strategic investment here."

"Demand would soon exceed our production capacity if Tesla's sales go smoothly," Tsuga said.

********

By the way, here's what the gigafactory looked like last week. It's getting bigger.

When you consider that less than 1% of new U.S. auto sales are electric vehicles, envisioning that number bump up to 5 or 10% seems totally far-fetched and unrealistic, it will take many many years before we're there.

Or will it? Ford sold 44,088 cars in the U.S. in November. Included in that number they sold 1,817 Fusion Energis, 721 C-Max Energis, and 66 Focus Electrics.

1,817 + 721 + 66 = 2,604. When you add it up, almost 6% of Ford's November sales were electric plug-ins.

I think buyers of electric think they are 'buying the future' and have no real downside risk. They are probably quite correct.

Recall perhaps the recent university discovery of a way to ultracharge a battery. Its still experimental but the actual time in the "gas" station would be about two minutes to wash the windows and only about fifteen seconds to charge the battery. When you get stuff like that happening the home battery and solar cell chargers get more attractive. Solar cells now use less expensive metals and can be made with compound curves, not flat panels. Sailboats now have plenty of space for solar cells and it is now quite possible to walk on them.

Charging a car will be a matter of an "ultraflash charge" or it will mean swapping in a new battery pack which will only take a few minutes. Range increases, versatility increases and the "inner city runabout" designed for commuting and shopping becomes a go anywhere car with a stay off the grid for as long as you like vehicle.

Home solar systems become devices that no longer require the slightest consideration about a succession of cloudy days, one could live in Seattle and still generate more power than your home required. No need to have flat panels, even shady spots can generate a trickle charge.

Just "general electric" news. (pun)

Quote:

U.S. solar-industry employment in 2016 grew at the fastest pace in at least seven years, with growth in all sectors including manufacturing, sales and installations, as demand for clean power swelled.

One out of every 50 new American jobs last year was in the solar industry, which now employs more than 260,000 workers, according to an annual report from The Solar Foundation, a Washington-based nonprofit. That's up 25 percent from 2015, and the biggest gain since the group first compiled the data in 2010.

Companies including SunPower Corp., Sunrun Inc. and Canadian Solar Inc. are all hiring as they gear up for an expected 29 percent increase in installed capacity this year. U.S. solar installation continues to climb as costs fall, making panels more cost-competitive with fossil fuels.

That's expected to continue despite President Donald Trump's pledge to boost the coal industry...

http://www.dailyherald.com/article/20170212/business/170219914/

Quote: reno

The Corolla base price for their 2016 model is $17,300 with 30 mpg city. Whether or not it's smart or dumb (financially) to shell out an additional $2,260 for a Prius C ($19,560 with 53 mpg city) is entirely dependent upon how many miles you drive per year and the price of gasoline.

Gas is sort of cheap right now, but it's a lot easier to make up the price difference of a hybrid when gas is $3.50/gallon.

I think we can safely assume that gas rape will resume just as soon as the petro companies decide the time is right. The price of gasoline has nothing, nothing, nothing to do with the available supply--or even demand for that matter. Its price is fixed by an oligarchal cartel. When they decide they can jack the price back up to $4 and get away with it, they'll do so. Then $5. Then $20. They'll turn the spigots on and off to maximize their profits.

To me, that's the best reason to own an electric/hybrid car. I don't want MobilExxonChevronBPetc. to be able to determine how much money I'll have left in my pocket every month. Moreover, fossil fuel is an obsolescing power source. It can only get scarcer. There's only a finite amount of it. We need to wean ourselves away from it. Plus, there's the carbon emissions factor, and though Republicans will continue to deny reality until the end of time, we have a responsibility to curb climate change.

I didn't buy a Prius when they first came out because I was worried that the batteries would cost an arm and a leg to replace and that I'd always have to go to the dealer to get it serviced. I recently saw an ad where Ford is offering lifetime free battery replacement for its hybrids. What interests me there is not so much the guarantee itself as the fact that Ford is confident enough in its batteries to offer it.